Do you think managing program isn’t significant?  
  
 Though I appreciate your overall concern, but somehow it’s coming out as you’re painting everyone with the same brush. Let me know if that’s not correct

The program managers I've worked with have delivered insanely more impact than any PM I've seen.

Software Developer

So it’s the nomenclature issue, doing program management shouldn’t be looked down. 
  
 P.S. - Do you have program managers in the same company?

Product Manager

Good team of product managers who are in sync with the program managers is what leadership teams are dying for .

With the recent influx of talent who are trying to enter the world of PMing just because they overheard that PMs are CEO of the product, and they get paid really well, the bar throughout the indust...

Welcome to Product Managers's Private Community

With the recent influx of talent who are trying to enter the world of PMing just because they overheard that PMs are CEO of the product, and they get paid really well, the bar throughout the industry is decreasing. 

While we need more PMs, I feel most of the 2-3yoe PMs i'm meeting either for interview or guidance are more like COGS in the wheel. They are doing more and more of Program Management. Any PM at any level should spend atleast 10-20% of their time thinking about product vision, and how will the world look like if their product succeeds in 1y). 

We need folks like Anuj, and other senior veterans, to come up and train the middle management of most of the companies to really improve PMing as a function in India

Future of PMing in India

Future of PMing in India- Grapevine

1. High pressure on timelines- business and top management shits on you if you don’t deliver on time
2. No power to control the outcome- engineers don’t listen to you neither does the design or analytics team, you end up begging for resources
3. Too much politics- business or a senior PM can steal your bandwidth anytime
4. Lack of recognition- if it succeeds business did it, if it fails it is product teams fault (engg never gets blamed for shit)

I believe Product Management is a really toxic role

Wdy think about this take on PM careers by amul.exe? Is future this grim?

So I've met many PMs in my career. Most have been sub par, poor performers, can't even do IC work. The ones who can do IC work, can't think. The IC work is generally project management not product. They need someone to tell them directions

So here's a few things. The best PMs I've met, are good engineers. Yes. These are the same folks who come for product management conferences and are respected. 
Of course not all engineers are good at product.
The role of product came up with manufacturing first when you had product designers who worked with engineers and had a good understanding of both engineering limitations and user understanding. 

Some of the PMs I have met don't even talk to users. The reason i am seeing an issue in PMs in India is the increase in demand in the role, and a lack of supply.

There is a product engineer role, I met a few folks who are doing that, they were amazing. Knew technology, users, product and super passionate.

I'm not saying this is a hard and fast rule, I'm sure there are folks who have a natural inclination, so if you're an exception, understand that. Don't get offended by the statement

What PMs lack in India

Founder’s Office

With talks of PMs not being required last year, to crazy layoffs scene and PM hiring being the indicator of industry hiring scene, how do you folks deal with the anxiety? With PM hiring being skewed towards supply side, do you think about contingency plans in case you are fired?
Too much anxiety being a PM with 5 years experience and salary being the only income source.

PMs, how do you make yourself layoff proof?

Hi folks,

If a company asks you to do a Product Take home assignment and never replies after it, what is the best way to prevent it ?

Preventing from being exploited in take home assignment

Software Engineer

Lately I am seeing a lot more people talk about the fact that being a PM is a sub optimal strategy for an eventful career in Tech. However, let me remind you that people in tech tend to be predominantly engineers and they like the people skills needed to be good at making Products for actual humans.

I have personally witnessed PMs be great at talking to various teams in Engg, Design, Analystics and Operations. They are so good at talking that they forget that they actually need to work and not just speak all the time. I feel that PMs are all talk but now work and just chill around the foosball table all day. Once in a while they will go and flirt with that new chick that joined their team. In case the joke wasn't clear, "PMs are the cesspool of Tech". 😂

We need PMs more than you think...

Product Owner

Welcome to Indian Startups's Private Community

its advertised as minj CEO role but what is the reality?

Why is Product Manager becoming dream career for many?

Would you rather be an Engineer learning how to Product or a Product Manager learning how to Engineer?

Answer is obvious mate. And it's already in motion. 
 Everyone knows current product management breed is a messed up fraudulent bunch. They will run into poverty if they don't change ways🙂

Founding Engineer

This is not a question for the cocky new grad in the overvalued startup, but for the few seasoned PMs that still reply out here.

Where do PMs go after they peak?

By peaking I mean arriving at a GPM or Staff PM position at the top 10-15 companies (you can do your own ranking here).

Nobody has the true statistics but I will use the assumption that 75% (debatable) of those who peak, will get laid off within 2 years from their ‘peak role’. The remaining will be able to progress into DoP and VP in the same top company or another in the top 15.

Where do they go then?

I am pretty positive, from experience, that they don’t go any up.

Do they go down the ladder of new startups for titles and ending up in the worst ones after being laid off 4-5 times? Do they quit all together?

Do they open a farm?

Do they start their own startup?

Comments and thoughts folks!

Where Do PMs Go After They Peak?

Met a PM from IIT / IIM with 4 years of experience. He is working at a  well know soonicorn at a salary of 17  lakhs per year . He used to draw 30 lakhs per year in his last role before we was laid off . Interesting Times ahead

PM Salaries Have Crashed.

A minute of silence to all the grapevine polls where salary expectations are so high 😁

Growth Manager

Welcome to Office Gossip's Private Community

Note - I am a product manager too

4 out of 5 product managers will act all high and mighty of themselves, bragging their way as if they run everything going on in the company, flaunting their business degrees and being utterly disrespectful towards their team( dev design qa name it), 

Recently started going to office so the attitude I am seeing is very transparent and more visible (more with the higher experience folks)

It makes me wanna leave this hyper inflated role, thinking of I will end up like them scares me, and you have to do is speak out jargons in meetings day in day out and have a English accent of Shashi Tharoor.

Recently my manager told that this is a role where you have to very representable or very visible and act in floor as if you are the busiest person on earth and I seriously some PMs in company doing that, they walk so fast in floor as if they will fall off or would be better to have 4 legs.

I am done with this product management shit

Ask me anything except my company name, or things that can reveal my identity. I may respectfully choose not to respond to your question based on my own judgement.

Here’s a brief intro about me: I’ve worked as both software engineering manager & software technical architect over the last 18+ years on various tech stacks managing backend, frontend and a little bit of cloud. I have seen ups and downs in the software industry. Currently I’m working as a senior architect in one of the product based companies in India.

I’ve been an Engineering Manager before. Ask me anything.

Software Architect

The job market has dried up for senior product roles. Do you think the situation will improve soon? What's your overall outlook of product management as a career beyond 10 years? Do you see yourself doing this for another decade?

Asking mostly from a supply and demand point of view. Also, has seen that the role is becoming more and more vague and replaceable.

Context: Leading a 6 membered product team in a series B funded company. Managing the ceo/cpo opinion differences, moving to wfo from remote, high work pressure and too much reporting. I have been working with series A, series B companies throughout my career.

To people with 10+ years in product management, what's your outlook for the future?

What's the scope of "Product Marketing" in India and global as well. Is it a growing field?

Product Marketing - Good or Bad?

Product Marketing Manager

I believe that PM roles require much more experience in understanding the product rather than making product teardown as projects which literally anyone can do. I don't see a real skill involved, it's like a person who is a consultant but being overpaid because he is too much involved in the product. It's the startup culture which started. I think Project/product manager roles should be a promotional mark for experienced software developers or analysts.

Do you think PM roles should be there for freshers?

Everyone and their mother became a product manager in the last few years. How safe are these jobs in a recession. I often hear (from engineers who don’t hide their disdain for PMs so maybe a biased opinion) that they are the first one to let go. Is that true?

Job security in product management

Query- what do PMs on grapevine think about product management

I know Grapevine is full of young and ambitious people that either planning to get into Product or are already working as a PM. I don’t aim to discourage any of you. Moreover, if you need tips to break into Product I would be happy to help you.

I personally feel that knowing what you are doing is going to doom is better than normalizing it.

So I will convey my experience in simple words, how I hated every single day of it, why did I still stick around for 4 years, why product decisions are random political bullshit, why you should not let anything that happens get under your skin and affect your morale. Finally, few words for sociopathic Head of Products.

Lesson #1: Go through all stages of grief at once. Accept that product culture is broken and accept that it will not get better. Finally, you can’t fix it or improve it.

Lesson #2: Ratings are political bullshit. 
I can tell you the years I was rated worse I was probably working harder and better at my job. It just depends on the results you get in the last month before ratings and whether your DOP is vocal for you.

Lesson #3: Last piece of advice: do not let your Product years lower your self esteem or sense of self worth.

Also, some words for sociopathic Head of Products. F’ you.

You Must Get Out - My Experience of 4 Years In Product

Heavily second this. I’m a tech focus generalist who stumbled upon PMing after multiple startup exits. Absolutely bonkers role with no role definition, metric ownership, impact driving. Anyone who disagrees, is lying to themselves. What I can define PM in Indian / many valley based companies with Indian founders -> glorified bhains charane wala.

Future of PMing in India

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