Lol. I am PM and couldn’t agree more 😂😂

Product Manager

Super surprised that influencezas bhaiya/ didi are not selling faang PM courses yet 🤔

PM has no deterministic path. SWE has it. Atleast a bit. Plus, they target tier 3 grade the maximum. And tier 3 grads have reached great places straight from their undergrad so it's easy to sell that vision. For PM, not so much. At fresher level it's mostly populated by tier 1 grads. Remaining goes to MBAs and experienced SWEs.  
  
 Tfctmtt xd

Consultant

Backend Engineer

Started from the top row, and now I'm in the bottom row.

PMs then vs PMs now

PMs then vs PMs now- Grapevine

Welcome to Software Engineers's Private Community

It’s clear that companies won’t need engineers 10 years from now. 

They’ll just need people who know what to make. Who to sell to. How to sell to. At what price. 

This will be the great commoditization of Software development

Take it or leave it.

[Hot Take] AI will make SWEs redundant, PMs and Marketers will become the most important job

This is an L take for someone who works at Google
It is supremely obvious that SWEs are about to enter the golden era of Software Engineering. We are easily foreseeing 2x-2.5x improvement in developer productivity rate. You should go touch some grass or else you will end up becoming PM guru who shills substandard-courses to poor kids.

Product Marketing Manager

Welcome to Product Managers's Private Community

With the recent influx of talent who are trying to enter the world of PMing just because they overheard that PMs are CEO of the product, and they get paid really well, the bar throughout the industry is decreasing. 

While we need more PMs, I feel most of the 2-3yoe PMs i'm meeting either for interview or guidance are more like COGS in the wheel. They are doing more and more of Program Management. Any PM at any level should spend atleast 10-20% of their time thinking about product vision, and how will the world look like if their product succeeds in 1y). 

We need folks like Anuj, and other senior veterans, to come up and train the middle management of most of the companies to really improve PMing as a function in India

Future of PMing in India

Software Developer

Welcome to Business Roles's Private Community

What exactly do PMs do anyway?

PM of 5 years. Same place the whole time. We have a new Engineering Manager. 

They started 2 months ago and at first they seemed like they were very happy to learn our process and products. Then they soon started to manipulate the Engineering team which was very cooperative earlier.

It’s incredibly demotivating. We are a small startup, and the culture isn’t great but seriously no need to be so dismissive of other people’s efforts and feelings. They are just fucking rude. No other word for it really. The problem is that they do NOT get the product side of things so you can’t explain anything to them. They start to physically roll their eyes when you go anymore product than the word “PRD”.

I have never had to deal with someone like this and it’s really stressing me out as they are involved in effectively every project I work on. Advice that isn’t “quit” will be appreciated.

I should also clarify that when I say “product limitations” I really mean how much effort goes into getting things right, the delays are shearing the roadmap apart.

why do Software Engineers act so rude? How to solve this in my team?

As a Product Manager, why do Software Engineers act so rude?

Software Engineer

Today a poll was conducted in my WhatsApp group for people who are planning for ms by the fall 2025 at US that wha roles are they targeting post their masters and majority of them are voted for product management so I want to ask is the product management is becoming new norm or it's just fomo among engineering grads like it was for software development 2-4 yrs back. Also what's the future of PMs in terms of salary, growth with advancement in AI tools

The PM trend

Met a PM from IIT / IIM with 4 years of experience. He is working at a  well know soonicorn at a salary of 17  lakhs per year . He used to draw 30 lakhs per year in his last role before we was laid off . Interesting Times ahead

PM Salaries Have Crashed.

A minute of silence to all the grapevine polls where salary expectations are so high 😁

Growth Manager

Product Owner

Seeing a lot of people asking how the market for PM's is, and what they should do rn, so going to add my 2 cents from recent experience.

My ex-company (I left last week) was hiring for PM's whom I was personally profile-screening & conducting interviews for. This happened first 4 months back, and then again 2 weeks back (for my replacement).

The quality of candidates between then and now is dramatically different - there are way better PM candidates applying for the same roles & looking for a switch now, for various reasons.

There is a lot more supply than demand, and that's going to make competition quite cut-throat and difficult to convert opportunities. It's less about the job market and more about the bigger & better candidate pool.

My advice - Stick to roles that are within your current space/niche where you have a proven track record. Apply diligently & try to leverage your connections. Don't try to throw everything at the wall & see what sticks - it's likely that nothing will.

Market outlook & advice to PM's

Senior Product Manager

Is there a lack of good opportunities, like it was 5-10 years ago in companies like Gojek, Swiggy, etc to grow fast into a Director of product role?

Are the fast-tracked PM career paths over?

Whenever you a call PM fraud here, they come & put justifications like you don't know business, products built by Engineers are shyt, only PMs can build good products, engineers don't prioritize business needs bla bla.

A data scientist/analytics perspective:
1. When we call a PM fraud, we refer to mainly those who come without a background in either of tech or business. Cool wannabes straight out of college & learnt nothing but attitude over years.
If a PM was an engineer, or analytics, or business or ops, then others first see him/her as engineer/etc & then a manager. That's the right way it should be. 

2. 'Business won't be prioritized' is such a complacency:
Business is bread & butter of Analytics and AI. It is the primary thing we check in interviews, a large portion of the interview focus' on the problem statement and prioritisations.

End note: PMs are hot, but only when they have a solid foundation in stuff they are building. They need to know depths. Anyone apart from this breed are worthless & Indian startups are filled with this shyt
A best PM would be a senior engineer/analyst with penchant for business practicality & customer perspective.

Why of 1st Point? Because how can you manage a team when you don't even know what that team does? For eg: I can tell my PM any random blabbing about why model is working/not & she has no idea to judge my words. Leave AI, with tech pipelines too I can give any deadlines & justify it how would she know? Besides if they don't have tech background they bring in random expectations which is far away from feasibility. Why should any tech guy respect them? They can understand business req, connect with business teams and build better. That's the exact role of a project manager.

Product Manager Worth & their insecure justifications

Founding Engineer

Welcome to Indian Startups's Private Community

Is product management going away?

Analyst 

1. They are the most overpaid people in India.
2. They have no work life balance and they don't even know what it means.
3. They think they are the best at everything, but they can't do anything right.
4. They are always complaining about their job and how much they hate it.
5. They are never satisfied with their salary or benefits package.
6. They are always looking for new jobs because they think they deserve better than what they currently have.

Would you like to add anything else here?

Software Engineers as seen by a Product Manager...

PM as seen by Engineers: 
 1. Doesn't do anything other than throwing random jargons 
 2. Can't explain what they do other than say how they are not Program manager or something else

Welcome to Office Gossip's Private Community

Note - I am a product manager too

4 out of 5 product managers will act all high and mighty of themselves, bragging their way as if they run everything going on in the company, flaunting their business degrees and being utterly disrespectful towards their team( dev design qa name it), 

Recently started going to office so the attitude I am seeing is very transparent and more visible (more with the higher experience folks)

It makes me wanna leave this hyper inflated role, thinking of I will end up like them scares me, and you have to do is speak out jargons in meetings day in day out and have a English accent of Shashi Tharoor.

Recently my manager told that this is a role where you have to very representable or very visible and act in floor as if you are the busiest person on earth and I seriously some PMs in company doing that, they walk so fast in floor as if they will fall off or would be better to have 4 legs.

I am done with this product management shit

https://the-ken.com/story/why-more-40-somethings-are-becoming-unwilling-retirees/?utm_source=daily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=daily_newsletter

PMs, views on this? How are PMs above 40 faring in the industry ?

Hey all, I'm seeking some advice and guidance from this amazing community. I'm currently at a crossroads in my career and would appreciate any insights from those who have been in a similar situation.

For the past 12 years multiple domains like Business, Digital marketing, Ui Ux & digital transformation, lastly 1.5yrs back I had the opportunity to become a founder of a startup where I handled both product and marketing. Unfortunately, that venture didn't find PMF, but I gained valuable experience in the process.

Now, I'm considering whether to pursue a career as a product manager or product marketer.

Also i didn't borrow any salary from the startup will it have any negative effects & how to mitigate them?

Lastly based on the above background what would be the ideal package to go for?

Stuck Between PM & PMM

Product Management

So I've met many PMs in my career. Most have been sub par, poor performers, can't even do IC work. The ones who can do IC work, can't think. The IC work is generally project management not product. They need someone to tell them directions

So here's a few things. The best PMs I've met, are good engineers. Yes. These are the same folks who come for product management conferences and are respected. 
Of course not all engineers are good at product.
The role of product came up with manufacturing first when you had product designers who worked with engineers and had a good understanding of both engineering limitations and user understanding. 

Some of the PMs I have met don't even talk to users. The reason i am seeing an issue in PMs in India is the increase in demand in the role, and a lack of supply.

There is a product engineer role, I met a few folks who are doing that, they were amazing. Knew technology, users, product and super passionate.

I'm not saying this is a hard and fast rule, I'm sure there are folks who have a natural inclination, so if you're an exception, understand that. Don't get offended by the statement

What PMs lack in India

Founder’s Office

Lately I am seeing a lot more people talk about the fact that being a PM is a sub optimal strategy for an eventful career in Tech. However, let me remind you that people in tech tend to be predominantly engineers and they like the people skills needed to be good at making Products for actual humans.

I have personally witnessed PMs be great at talking to various teams in Engg, Design, Analystics and Operations. They are so good at talking that they forget that they actually need to work and not just speak all the time. I feel that PMs are all talk but now work and just chill around the foosball table all day. Once in a while they will go and flirt with that new chick that joined their team. In case the joke wasn't clear, "PMs are the cesspool of Tech". 😂

PMs then vs PMs now

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