Just an intersting data point. There are about 400 odd startups who raised at least 50m since 2010. Less than 20% are profitable.

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Startups are not criticised for making losses. They sre criticised for making losses having raised insane capital at insane Valuation

Business Analyst

Startups are not criticised for making losses. They sre criticised for making losses having raised insane capital at insane Valuation- Grapevine

I'm seeing so many posts where startup employees are cribbing about things like layoffs, work culture etc etc. Doesn't seem like they have perspective on everything it takes to build a startup. I've built a failed startup myself and have immense respect for founders who are grinding it out there in such difficult recessionary circumstances. 

And then you have so many of the engineers and PMs cribbing about basics without talking about important things like learning growth, building for the future etc. Why such myopia? I work at a big tech and envy the speed at which startups move, the big responsibility everyone gets to handle, the fast career growth. All these things are being cribbed about. They crib about founders wanting more. Their job is to ensure success, not to give lifetime jobs to entitled people. They have more headaches you can imagine. In my small startup I had a million headaches. I can only imagine how hard it must be to run larger ships. Is everyone joining a startup these days looking for a get rich quick scheme?

Why are startup folks so entitled?

If you can’t run a business that lets people have a normal life then you’re the one who thinks they’re entitled to employees. 
 Businesses must take risk, employees don’t. Stop your whining that people won’t support shitty business plans

Software Engineer

Growth Manager

Welcome to Personal Finance's Private Community

As we can see only 3-5% Indian startups become profitable and rest of are still in the loss. But Cred , Zomato, Paytm and many more loss making companies are still in the market with tag of "Unicorn". Ye kaise possible ho paa rha hai.. investors ab bhi Paisa lagaye chale Jaa rhe hai .. 
Why ????????

Loss making startup

1 year back all startups were losing money like crazy while all of a sudden everyone from Swiggy to Meesho to Unacademy are profitable or EBITDA positive.
Other companies which were profitable earlier have not shown a spike in profit.

Were these companies uselessly burning money earlier if they can just suddenly become profitable in 6-8 months

Profitable startups

Product Manager

Startups which were loosing hundreds of millions last year are now annocuing PAT and planning for IPOs. What has changed really or were they uselessly burning money

Sudden profits in all startups

Few months ago, mama earth CEO compared it's losses with Amazon saying, "Amazon too made losses". Now Firstcry is IPO bound with their losses being 6x in 2023 and also justifoed it. 

Amazon made a loss Because they  invested all their profits into R&D

Most startups are making a loss because they are selling products at a discount to show high GMV

Both are not same... 

I am yet to see a single big success story in India startup ecosystem which justifies 'India has arrived' and so much VC's exuberance .

Many IPO bound founders justify their loss by comparing with Amazon. Amazon made a loss Because they  invested all their profits into R&D

Most startups are making a loss because they are selling products at a discount to show high GMV

IIT grad here building a venture backed startup. I think 99% of folks here believe that venture backed founders are super entitled and in a much "cosier" position than employees

Just sharing a few facts about our journey so far if it helps anyone improve their perspectives-

1) Paying ourselves 33% of our campus salary & 60% of what we are paying to our employees (Talking about Pure Base Salary here, not including ESOPs)

2) Insane stress - You basically have to raise money to build (esp if its deeptech because of the high fixed costs) and there are predefined metrics you have to always chase, sometimes just beyond yourselves. 

Your product will be copied if it's good because well, they always have more money than you. You work 7 days a week for insane hours, chasing metrics required to be "afloat" 

3) 99% of venture backed startups result in 0 liquidity gain for founders. So basically in all likeliness, everything is for a net negative return compared to if we took the campus job

So, when you wholeheartedly bash founders as if they are sitting On a goldmine while you are toiling for THEIR gold Treasure, just understand that more likely than not, there is not really any gold but rather an irrational hope they are clinging to

Also, Yes-we pay above market to our employees (100% hike for the last one) but the truth is some startups just Can't afford it. And ironically, there is a much higher looking down on these startups with meagurely paid founders rather than giants like Tech Mahindra paying peanuts to their employees while having a 1000% salary hike for the executives. 

Yeah, most startups need to do better but please appreciate if someone is atleast trying to do better because trust me, it's INSANELY HARD.. 

The number of posts I see about Flipkart making hundreds millionaires is way too less than the ones I see about pinpointing at every single mistake early stage startups do & I just wanted to express my opinion on it

Peace!

People way overestimate the life of founders

Oh no poor founders, they have to pay fair salary to their employees.

Founder

Most of the startups are in loss and have no clue whether they would be able to make it to IPO, I've always been wondering how come so they get the funding in hundreds of millions?

Even though the early investors seek to make money off the next funding round but still!

It looks like a 21st century's quick rich scheme for founders!

How come all these startups get funding in hundreds of millions?

Most startup’s are not founded with great altruistic purpose to elevate human condition. Most startup’s are founded where founders know they can make money or earn status points through little schemes of leveraging their network of investors. 

Most of them know they can earn more income by just raising some money from friends or VCs. Build a small tech tool and burn through money trying to acquire and retain customers. All this while hiring 100s of employees selling false narratives. 

What bugs me the most isn’t the thousands of people getting laid off, salary corrections or bankruptcies, it is the mafiaesque organisation built to “create wealth for some by exploitation of countless others” 

Most startup founders use brute force of content and media coupled with ignorance of people to perpetuate this cycle. 

It’s the virtue signalling and holier than thou attitude of most founders and VCs justifying all their mindless brutality in the name of strategy and growth which destroys aspirations and outcomes for the many. It’s more relevant in India because of large scale ignorance about money and large scale trust on educated individuals with the right college tags! 

If you have seen sopranos, most founders are like Anthony soprano - summarily violent, manipulative and ruthless behaviour primarily driven by selfish greed but juxtaposed with moments of vulnerability and struggle justifying his action with a facade of providing for his family. 

*Replace Anthony soprano with your founder/ceo name* 


1. VSS was playing fast and lose with rbi regulations resulting in stock crash and layoffs 
2. Byju’s systematically destroyed his own company and wealth of his employees just to ensure he retains majority control 
3. Ashneer G and his wife manipulated company books
4. Zerodha founders cheated in chess match or lied about their system failures which lost a lot of capital

PS: I refer to most founders because there are few exceptions who don’t fit into this narrative.

Startup founders are mafia bosses!

Incredibly myopic and pessimistic view. I'd suggest trying to be a founder yourself once before judging them. 
  
 Not every startup needs to elevate human condition, plus you still need money to make that happen. 
  
 Most founders don't actually earn much compared to jobs they could've had in companies. All you see is the flashy idiots like Kunal Shah and Byju. Not the bootstrapper shutting down their 10th project for xyz reasons. Because no one likes talking about their failures, and no one listens to people who fail. Only those who succeed.  
  
 You have a problem with the human condition buddy, not founders. Humans can be real shitty given the right kind of conditions. Everyone's fallible, even you.  
  
 If you think you can be a better founder than some of the names you mentioned, then you're only indulging in holier than thou behaviour, which you allegedly hate about founders.  
  
 I do agree with some of the things you said, but much of it is way off.

Generalist

Consultant

Name the startups makes 1000 Cr profit per year?

Investor

Welcome to Office Gossip's Private Community

- Most VCs are fraud, they never make any money and keep shifting from one fund to another to hide that they never made anyone any money. 
They also have usually no real input to add. 
They are no subject matter except negotiations which too mostly they just prey upon any founders. 

It's a thankless asset class. Most founders will always hate it as they will never get a dollar and most investors hate it as they will never net a dollar. 

Never chase VC, they are supposed to find opportunity .. Chasing them is useless, they judge you for it. 
So treat them from first day like your ex. Gf/bf. 

- Most tech startup founders are fraud,  they never make any money and keep shifting from one idea to another to hide they never made anyone any money. 
it usually takes 20 years to make a real $100 million dollar revenue company, but 20 months to be a unicorn. 
Any unicorn today is priced according to what they would make after 5-10 years... Yeah right. 

- Making real money is hard. Making fake money is easy. 
99% of startup Esops are fraud
If the company is homerun, then they won't get you stock easy. 
If the company is maybe homerun, they won't give you cash easily. 
If you get free cash and esops, just imagine it's an 18 month project. 

- Most of the humblebrags are fraud as half of them don't even understand the fine print of what they think is real money but not. 

- Most of the people who usually ask for change have no intention for it. They want to be seen as leaders, change is hard, negotiated and cried for. 

- you only live once. Go hard.. No one like people who have too much to talk but nothing to show.

Some observations after 10+ years of being in the system

I was speaking to an ex-colleague and he mentioned how my previous employer, a lending startup, has been intentionally over-reporting disbursal numbers and under-reporting delinquencies in portfolio.

They conveniently chuck the NBFC partners who dare to ask questions and instead catch new fish. During my time I saw sales staff committing rampant frauds and making money on the sides from users. The founders conveniently turned a blind eye till there was new business coming in. They've seemingly moved on to the next level now.

The founders have top pedigree and already come from well off families. Makes me wonder how many such skeletons are buried across startups and what leads to such behaviour. Especially in the wake of what we saw with GoMechanic, Zilingo etc.

Frauds at startups

Business Operations

Why: I know that with all the job layoffs happening, it's kinda stupid to quit but I just can't. After almost a decade in the startup scene I'm taking a break, probably for good. 

From AI to B2C to ed-tech and more I have worked with startups at every stage of growth and across sectors. Almost in every one of these w/o exception, I have experienced burnout, mindless pressure, and being underpaid because I'm not from an IIT or IIM. 

Context: I love technology, I have been a sci-fi nerd since school and I threw myself into the stories of startups changing the world. But because of family finances and the overall culture of startups I haven't taken a break in about 10 years and it's starting to show. 

I don't have savings to last me more than 3-4 months but at this rate I'll end up checking out of society. 

Unsolicited advice: 
1) Most startups and the VCs that back them know they're going to fail but don't internalise their failure as yours. 
2) Always, always take care of your mental + physical health. Doesn't matter if you're intern and you're expected to slog 12-15 hours in the name of learning. 
3) I missed moments with my ageing mom and dad, school friends and just time to read and relax because I was afraid of missing out on "networking" and "office night outs". Fuck all that, it is and it will always be family and frit first. 


Finally, Fuck all you hustle bro CEOs, they have done more to damage the mentor health of a generation more than any politician. I feel stupid and useless because you can't help posturing and creating panic in the name of disruption. Hope AI takes your jobs too. 

PS: See you on the other side.

I'm laying myself off. Indian start-ups have killed my sense of purpose

Product Marketing Manager

Third Wave has only 1 year of runway left, with 70% of it's outlets being loss making 🤯

When you compete to serve the top 1% of India, obviously it will end up in losses

Category Manager

Corporate Strategist

Everyone is raising questions about why startups are losing money so heavily

But on the other aspect, do people see that the sectors which are the highest loss making have become a crucial impact of our lives?
Example
Hospitality, Ed-Tech,Food Tech, Logistics and Ride hailing

Can we imagine our lives to go back where we were 10-12 years ago without such services?

I think the bigger game is going to be get more people to use the platform, make them high intent users and get them so used to to the platform that it becomes a necessity
Hence I feel they are spending money to grab the audience and then build on it
I am quite sure a lot of companies are going to fall, but that is how a the world of business behaves
Would love to know thoughts

Are loss making startups good or bad?

Business Development Manager

I have been following the Indian startup scene for a while now, and I have to say that I am not impressed. It seems like most of the startups here are nothing more than people chasing quick bucks and the entire scene is a circlejerk of people doing everything, attending these stupid conferences and gatherings than actually building something game-changing.

Every founder is chasing nothing more than a valuation just so they can exit and there’s nothing wrong with it but don’t sit on a moral high ground talking about building business etc. There’s a reason we don’t see startups here penetrating west because most of the founders in the Indian ecosystem reek of ego and it’s all because we don’t judge business on merit but based on the degree the founders have. We all can count stupid startups draining money all because they are from some IIT or IIM or now some fancy degree from Ivy and yes it takes effort and hard work to reach there. Still, it automatically doesn’t translate to you naturally being better than a guy working his ass off to make up that difference.

Also, just because you used your dad’s money to start a 'Venture Firm or be an angel investor after college doesn’t mean you’re an expert at everything. You’re just adding to the noise and the hype that is already too much in this space. You’re not helping anyone but yourself and your ego.

So a friendly reminder can we all actually focus on building things based on hard work and merit instead of glorifying this circlejerk. Can we stop being obsessed with funding rounds and valuations and start being obsessed with solving real problems and creating value for customers and society? Can we stop being influenced by the media and the hype and start being influenced by the data and the feedback? Can we stop being part of the problem and start being part of the solution?

Startup scene being a complete circlejerk.

Welcome to Product Managers's Private Community

Hey everyone, excited to be doing this AMA!

A brief about me, I work currently as a Director of Product at an Indian unicorn startup 

About my career: 
- Did my undergrad from IIT and then masters from an Ivy league school
- Have been in product for almost 10 years now - across 2 Indian unicorn startups and a publicly listed company

Would love to take questions on what it means to be a PM, growing within the role, building your career, and other things :) 

Will be back here at 4 pm and start replying
Shoot away!

AMA 🎙️: Hey all, I am pmsprint, Director of Product Management at a Unicorn in India!

Recently whenever I come across any post on GV asking about the culture of a particular company people generally point out it to be toxic... Even in big companies like Swiggy, Upstox etc.
Are there even any good product companies in India with decent TC + WLB + Culture??

Is a toxic workplace becoming a common thing??

I know this might be a one off, but even if they are close to profitable/break even quarters, this can become a strong business

Big if true, given Meesho’s scale

I dont trust a single words come out of the CXO’s mouth in case of startups. All bullshiting and hyping

Engineering Manager

Absolutely sad to see the state of the startups, most of them.
I am a founder myself, and this is a post with equal disappointment with myself as much as it is for anyone else who relates.
Look at all these companies that have raised shit tons of capital, and now make a fraction of money that has been invested in them.
The raised money is spent on outsized, non business sense making acquisition costs, only to keep repeating it till the tap runs dry.
Then when all stakeholders get bored, the service quality plummets, the employees are fired and whole sectors are admonished as being bad.

But, my question is, which sector where large sums of money was invested in early days have come out with flying colours. Fucking nothing !
Edtech, proptech, agritech, ecommerce etc. etc. etc. kuch bhi nahi. 

Is there any sector where a startup which has raised in the 100s of millions in the first 5 years have actually built a sustainable business at any scale ?
Then scaling down, isse acha, scale slowly.
The worst part of this whole drama, is pushing the innovation wheel backward and destroying customer sentiment.

Isse acha, raise less money inititally, build slowly, and only scale when the market is ready. Artifical growth makes no sense, unless you have a treasure chest that shall never run out.
Even in that case, spend the money on assets and not on random acquisition costs, direct or indirect.

As founders, let's do better, nahi ?

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