I am annoyed to the point that i don't want to work anymore as software engineer:( I feel we will be like hr joke in no time . Cringy af :(

Product Manager

Software Engineer

“Can’t differentiate between feature and bug from their elbow and ass” 🤣😂 
  
 Lmao

Everytime I open any SM app, I have advertisements lined up from various scammers/exLavda/exlasun selling Product Management/Data Analyst and Full Stack Courses.   It literally has made me delete m...

Welcome to Product Managers's Private Community

Everytime I open any SM app, I have advertisements lined up from various scammers/ex-Lavda/ex-lasun selling Product Management/Data Analyst and Full Stack Courses. 

It literally has made me delete most, if not all the social media apps. I'm just tired of these scammers. 

When I started in Product, I actually loved it. Now, it has become like Virar-Churchgate Local dabba with everyone coming and shitting up what was actual work. Even companies are hiring dogshit people who can't differentiate feature and bug from their elbow and ass. 

It is just tiring now. Everyone has now lost the plot.

Tired of PM Ed-Fluencers.

Tired of PM Ed-Fluencers.- Grapevine

Its been a few good years of product roles being adopted in Indian companies big & small, 
Yet they remain the most random wild cards.

From skewness towards just tools (SQL, Clevertap, Jira etc) to absolute monstrosity in 3 years exp + MBA + tech background for an APM role 🤡

Latest trend is domain experience. N years in Retail, Erp, Cloud etc. 

Golden days of free entry and learning are over. 

Let’s see how things go if the role even survives in its current form(s).

Evolution of the product role

Is it just me or even anyone else who's noticing that there are too many PM courses. And the courses are portraying as tho every Tom, Dick and Harry can become a PM. Linkedin is flooded with teardowns. What y'all think ?

Welcome to Indian Startups's Private Community

Consultant, Investment Banking went from sought after careers to fads post 2008 crisis when the world realized that these folks are crooks due to their role in propogating the Great Financial Crisis.

Given the backlash tech companies has been getting and global layoffs, will Product Manager also become a passing fad?

Seeing lot of anti Product Manager sentiment on this app off late. Was Product Management also a fad?

Someone here said engineers can become PM but PM can't become engineers. It can't be more correct than this. But reality is, it sounds goods only in theory.  
  
  I asked this same question to my director, why have you hired us when engineers clearly know more about products than us and are capable?  His answered that before the organisation formally created a team of product managers, it was only engineers that were handling product for decades. But that resulted into substandard products being developed, chaotic product release and consistent drop in revenue. The reason being engineers became backlog managers and engineers beging engineers, never focused on business value. Instead, they focused on technical aspect heavily. Engineers never bothered to check if what they were developing will actually sell in the market or not.  
  
 And mind you, this was a product that all of us use in daily lives. The numbers of users in India alone would be millions. So to summarise, yes, engineers can become PMs but generally they stay loyal to their pedigree of BE/B.Tech and become very shitty PMs. They like to have more technical conversations than strategic discussions and hate things that are not quantifiable, subjective. And business facing people here in forum would know, things are always not quantifiable in business planning, market outlook. It is based on assumptions.  
  
 An excellent PM would be someone who is an engineer but knows how to focus on business value of the product, make it customer oriented etc. I had the pleasure of working of one such PM in my last stint and he was truly outstanding. CEO knew him personally and this is in an organization with thousands of employees

Program Manager

I worked hard for last 2-3 years and finally got into product mgmt from business strategy role. Now I keep listening that product mgmt is a dying career, it has no future, it will be gobbled up by AI. 
I am really exhausted of this catchup game. I sometimes feel that things would have been better if I had joined some FMCG company in a supply chain - ops role. Those roles are much more stable than these high stress startup roles.

What should be my plan to lead a more peaceful yet decently high paying career? In need of some great advice folks...pls share valuable comments 🙂

Product mgmt in danger??

F you for sending clickbaity / heartattack inducing notifications, which look like calendar invites, DMs, mentions and other shit. 

There's a special place reserved in hell for you.

PMs and Marketting guys from Swiggy, Zomato, PayTM

Just a month in new organisation and already lost motivation due to the upcoming layoffs. Senior Leadership of Product is laid off due to the company moving towards a different organisational view of being business led. 

Started looking for a job already. If this is how private jobs work, then we'll only see people who deliver mediocre work and don't push themselves for the org. 

Even the best performers will be reduced to task deliverers, as there is no assurance of anything.

Some lessons :

1. Work on your finances.
2. Learn the craft.
3. Always keep looking out. (Gone are the days about frequent career jumps. Now-a-days you have to do it to survive).
4. Don't be hard on your family. (Goes both ways. Your family member might be anxious because of their unstable job. Understand them. )
5. Be helpful.


Let's hope the world is kind to everyone.

Product Leadership fired

I’ve probably seen 15+ young, impressionable college students fall prey to PM course scams in the last month only. PLEASE DO NOT JUMP INTO COURSES THINKING YOU’LL END UP IN PRODUCT MANAGEMENT FOR LONG. Please build some hard skills - SQL, Analysis, Figma, basics of python, basics of APIs, prompt engineering etc first. APMs who don’t have any hard skills and are only good at user journey, product sense, bettering a product, etc., would be massacred very soon. Shift to PM after some work experience. I’m getting my LinkedIn flooded with requests which look similar - 

Hi , I’m enthusiast about PM, read a few Nir eyal, Theils, have worked as an intern on <Unknown Product> and would like to apply for Position at your company. I’ve done blah blah courses and feel I’d be a good fit. NO YOU WON’T. Please save yourselves. :(

Advice to College folks on PM career

Hey GV folks, long-time lurker, first-time poster here. I'm a product leader at Zomato, managing a team of 8 PMs. Today, I want to share a practice that's become the cornerstone of our product philosophy - and it all started with me being "punished" by my first manager.

At the cost of self praising, this is some really good advice so I hope you’re able to extract the maximum value out of this.

Five years ago, I was a cocky new PM, fresh out of a fancy consulting gig. I thought I knew everything about our users based on data and surveys.

My wake-up call came when I royally screwed up a feature release. Instead of firing me, my manager did something unconventional - she made me spend a week as a delivery partner.

I was pissed. Riding around Bangalore in the March heat, navigating traffic, dealing with hangry customers - how was this supposed to make me a better PM? But on day three, while waiting for an order outside Truffles (fellow Bangaloreans, you know the wait I'm talking about), I struck up a conversation with a few seasoned delivery partners.

What I learned in those 30 minutes blew my mind. They shared hacks they'd developed, pain points I'd never considered, and insights about customer behavior that no amount of data could have revealed. I realized I'd been building features in a vacuum, completely disconnected from the real world our app operated in.

That week changed everything. I rewrote our entire product roadmap based on what I learned. The results? Our delivery partner satisfaction scores shot up, and our order completion rates improved significantly.

Since then, I've made it a point to spend one day every month doing deliveries. It keeps me grounded, provides constant insights, and reminds me who we're really building for.

When I started managing other PMs, I knew I had to institutionalize this practice. Now, it's mandatory for everyone on my team to do a delivery day once a month. No exceptions.

At first, there was resistance. "We have data for this," they'd argue. "I can't waste a whole day delivering food!" But after their first experience, they got it. Now, our team meetings are buzzing with insights from the field.

Here's why I believe every product manager should regularly step into their users' shoes:

1. Data doesn't tell the whole story: Numbers can show you what's happening, but not why. Real interactions reveal the context behind the data.
2. Empathy drives innovation: When you experience user pain points firsthand, you're more motivated to solve them creatively.
3. It challenges assumptions: Nothing humbles you faster than realizing your "brilliant" feature is actually a pain to use in the real world.
4. It builds credibility: When you can say "I've done this myself," your team and stakeholders listen differently.
5. It's a reminder of impact: In the daily grind of KPIs and metrics, it's easy to forget that we're affecting real people's lives. This practice keeps that front and center.

Some practical tips if you want to try this:
- Don't just observe. Actually do the job.
- Engage in conversations. Users (and front-line workers) are usually eager to share their experiences if you show genuine interest.
- Look for workarounds and hacks. These are gold mines for product insights.
- Pay attention to the environment and context in which your product is used.
- Reflect on the experience immediately after. What surprised you? What frustrated you?

To my fellow PMs out there: when was the last time you truly stepped into your users' shoes? If it's been a while, I challenge you to give it a try. You might just find your next big product breakthrough while waiting to pick up someone’s 1 am order from Empire :)

P.S. Took a photo while waiting for my order, would probably have been fired long back had it not been for this evening!

Why I make my PM team deliver food orders - no exceptions

Why does your post sounds like some made up bullshit Gyaan I see on LinkedIn everyday.

Founder

Rant. Chappri Interns and mid af SDEs on LinkedIn have destroyed the entire point of the platform. Every Tier 1 graduate working at Microsoft or Walmart posts their own pic in some Manali hillstation and give 400 lines of unsolicited gyaan, which virgin btech 2nd year students cant help but drool at.

I get it bro/sis, you mugged up 800 LC mediums and Microsoft came to your BITS campus and picked you up because you solved a system design question in the interview which scales infinitely for infinite users. No, i dont want to enroll is PrepCracker's System Design Cohort for just Rs 69,999 and replace Hotstar's CTO.

Folks like Arpit Bhayani and Addy Osmani are the only reason I open linkedin to actually get some ground level reality of how to be a better SWE, but all i see is bhaiyya didi telling me why my resume is not getting selected because i didnt pay Rs. 1,999 for their Topmate Resume Review session.

Due to them Twitter is full of 2nd year dimwits who think swe is the only path to liberation and their bhaiyya didi will be their guiding angel. They won't. They'll turn out just like your average 3.5lpa employee at WITCH. The only way to become a good swe is figure shit out yourself and do what you love. Its that simple. Im from a shit tier 3 college. I've cracked FAANG and that too with 42 lc solved. What DSA bro?

Thankyou to the Grapevine team for building a good platform where genuine watercooler discussions take place. Deleted LinkedIn for good until i get my sanity back.

LinkedIn Gyaanis should be banned

Middle class people are not wrong in thinking that swe is a path to their liberation. I could only afford to travel to these exotic places, take up (unnecessary) hobbies, pursue gym and eat good after earning those fat paychecks because of these overvalued startups paying me

I wonder why all the PM's of Unacademy are leaving. A handful of those left are planning to switch.

Are product managers at Unacademy frustrated ?

Coming from a SPM.
Lifecycle of most PMs:
1. Become a PM
2. Keep posting same trite content on LinkedIn
3. Then register yourself as a coach on some PM community.
Nothing against them but frankly none of them ever post a content or article on what features they have launched or worked upon.
Forget any launch,they won't even share the domain learning.Most of the time it will be the copy pasted content from Marty Cagan and Shreyas Doshi

Too much bakar from PMs

Welcome to LinkedIn Cringe's Private Community

Opportunities are so much more then when I stared. We never flaunted getting a job into a Top company even when options were fewer. What is the need to give average gyan on linkedin for getting a job offer. Open question to Gen Z why are you so desperate for social validation?

GenZ flaunting job offers on LinkedIn as if they won a Olympic gold medals

Data Scientist

I am a PM at an edtech startup. The company is not doing well and my boss is not a good leader. Although company has a runway of 2 years. For the past 3 months I have been doing program management. No product management related work at all. No one appreciates you here. It's mentally challenging to work here. No road map for myself. No appraisal. I'm just going on the job for salary. For the past week, I have been thinking about quitting and taking a break. Then look for a job. I know the market is tough but I have runway for 4-5 months. I have a total of 3 years of Product experience. 

What should you guys suggest. I really need your help here.

Should I quit my job?!

I don’t need one more platform to watch reels 🤬

Should I start prepping dance in formal clothes?

Consultant

Growth Manager

I get the idea of marketing yourself is the key factor here but do you think over all that just degrades the quality of content and makes a bad platform as any other ?

Do you think posting seductive content is valid on linkedin and get the high amount of reach out it

Social Media Manager

Would you rather be an Engineer learning how to Product or a Product Manager learning how to Engineer?

Answer is obvious mate. And it's already in motion. 
 Everyone knows current product management breed is a messed up fraudulent bunch. They will run into poverty if they don't change ways🙂

Founding Engineer

Hiring for a bunch of roles for an early stage startup. Salaries of people who have been laid off is through the roof

2-3 years experience asking for 30-40l and while we chose not to judge the experience and spoke to a few of them, most of them are not even worth half of the pay. 

Many are jobless since last 2-3 months and none of them are willing to take a paycut of even 5-6L and are willing to stay jobless ( probably have a ton of savings )

Market correction is necessary.

Roles : PM, software engineers, generalists

What's wrong with salaries

If you are paid less, don’t extrapolate it on others. If they are willing to wait, let them. You should keep praying for “corrections”.

LinkedIn Cringe : SDE teaching PM after learning from course. When this pandemic of unwanted mentors will end? 🥲

Most of the people just keep adding so many irrelevant pictures to their posts!! I mean what do they get out of it. If it’s anything to do with regards to the picture, I understand. Other than that, it has become a trend to add photos to the posts. They say they will have greater reach and greater views. It’s so annoying. I don’t understand the difference between Instagram and LinkedIn. Most of the time I feel Instagram is better than LinkedIn. All these so called entrepreneurs have also started doing this shit and feels 😖😣

LinkedIn pe rant!

Market Research

I know Grapevine is full of young and ambitious people that either planning to get into Product or are already working as a PM. I don’t aim to discourage any of you. Moreover, if you need tips to break into Product I would be happy to help you.

I personally feel that knowing what you are doing is going to doom is better than normalizing it.

So I will convey my experience in simple words, how I hated every single day of it, why did I still stick around for 4 years, why product decisions are random political bullshit, why you should not let anything that happens get under your skin and affect your morale. Finally, few words for sociopathic Head of Products.

Lesson #1: Go through all stages of grief at once. Accept that product culture is broken and accept that it will not get better. Finally, you can’t fix it or improve it.

Lesson #2: Ratings are political bullshit. 
I can tell you the years I was rated worse I was probably working harder and better at my job. It just depends on the results you get in the last month before ratings and whether your DOP is vocal for you.

Lesson #3: Last piece of advice: do not let your Product years lower your self esteem or sense of self worth.

Also, some words for sociopathic Head of Products. F’ you.

You Must Get Out - My Experience of 4 Years In Product

Heavily second this. I’m a tech focus generalist who stumbled upon PMing after multiple startup exits. Absolutely bonkers role with no role definition, metric ownership, impact driving. Anyone who disagrees, is lying to themselves. What I can define PM in Indian / many valley based companies with Indian founders -> glorified bhains charane wala.

Tired of PM Ed-Fluencers.

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