AMA: Hey everyone, I'm Sandeep, co-founder of Dezerv. Ask me anything!
Hello everyone, I'm Sandeep, the co-founder of Dezerv. We're an investment management platform helping affluent Indians invest better. Prior to Dezerv, I was a Sr. Managing Partner & Head of IIFL-One, and in all have over 15 years of experience within wealth management. Would be keen to answer questions about Portfolio Management Services (PMS), Mutual Funds, Wealth-tech as a space, investment management, entrepreneurship, and more. I'll be back at 5 pm and start answering away!
BearBear
Stealth
a year ago
Hey Sandeep, are you hiring SDE-1? I would like to work with you.
BearBear
Stealth
a year ago
Haan Bhai sach baat toh yahi hai, insan sochta hai kuch bhi accha ho Jaye toh apne ghar walo ke liye kuch accha kar paye maa baap ke liye. Aur site bhi dekha Maine toh sahi laga sab aur Banda bhi accha hai itna open toh socha koshish karta hu accha hojaye sayad.
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Hi Sandeep.
Love what you’re doing. Had a few questions.
1. What is the rationale behind raising venture funding? As I see it, usually the game is to increase AUM by showing stellar returns to investors. Curious to know how venture capital accelerated growth in your offerings.
2. Incumbents in this space(investing) are primarily Mutual Funds/PMS style. How does your value proposition differ from this?
3. Finally, what would be your one piece of advice to folks who want to effectively manage their capital.
Hey Salt!
Great questions.
1. Investment management is a domain that requires capital upfront: even before the first client ‘walks’ in, all systems need to be in place — a team of investment professionals, strong operations and compliance, security systems etc. VC allowed us to build this to a level of quality that we wanted to deliver.
2. There are three differences in how we run our portfolios — One, our portfolio construction is led by a strong process that my co-founder Vaibhav and the investment team have created. Two, we deliver these portfolios in a manner that our investment team ‘owns’ performance — centralised, controlled execution helps us ensure consistency of performance. Three, wherever regulations allow (as they do in case of PMS), we operate under a zero fixed fee, only share of profit model — aligning us with the client’s objectives entirely.
3. To be able to effectively manage our capital, each one of us needs to be clear on what our tolerance to downside is. We should answer this question for ourselves, and make sure we communicate this to our investment manager/advisor. The biggest investment mistakes are made when we are not clear about this, both in bull markets and in times of downside.
@SandeepJethwani I really love the detailed answer. This appears to be a wonderfully structured thought process.
It appears counter-intuitive to me, because I always thought it is a asset light business. But, it makes sense that one would be able to setup excellent teams and processes right at the get go using venture capital.
Once again, much appreciated. Thanks for your wonderful insights. ✨
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How did you get to where you are today in your life journey? Would love to know about your path to becoming a founder
Hey WideScene,
Tough answer to give :) It’s 42 years after all! But here’s the short version: money was always a conversation in the household growing up — we didn’t have too much of it, and my parents were both PSU bankers. So at IIM Bangalore, it was clear to me that I wanted to be around investments/capital allocation. Was fortunate enough to get into Kotak’s wealth management business in its nascent stage, and then as part of the team that founded IIFL Wealth (now 360One). In late 2020, it was clear that successful professionals need help with doing better with their hard earned money. Dezerv was born in mid-2021, with my fantastic co-founders Sahil and Vaibhav, who’d been friends and colleagues for nearly 15 years.
_TheScream021
Stealth
a year ago
What exactly is wealth monitor? Have been saying a lot of ads around it. Wanted to understand how it helps investors.
Wealth Monitor is a free portfolio review tool developed by Dezerv’s team to help you identify red flags in your mutual fund portfolio. The app analyzes your portfolio’s risk level, diversification, underperforming funds and your investing discipline.
Even before you make a new investment, you need to know how your existing portfolio is doing. While everyone ends up focusing on where to invest new cash, we often ignore our current investments. Wealth Monitor is our endeavour to help investors review their existing portfolio, and guide them on how they can do better.
Hey Sandeep,
PMS in India requires 50L at minimum. While a lot of people may have that money (the top 1%), being able to trust a platform with all of it is too tough. Just the thought of trusting one platform with that much money is tough to grab.
How do you think about building trust? Isn’t that a very long journey? How do you ensure money is safeguarded in the long term?
Hey AlphaGrindset,
You’re right — the minimum is high, and with hard earned funds it is hard to trust someone. First, there are no hacks to trust and therefore it is indeed about playing the long game. We believe trust is about how we engage/work with our clients on a daily basis (and that means taking tough calls daily) and how we communicate (again needs to be done with very high frequency). Fortunately, especially in the PMS there are multiple checks and balances — we use ICICI Bank as our custodian (so they hold the demat in your name). Now, we have been fortunate that we are now trusted by clients with over INR 3,400 crores across all modes of engagement, and trust in our business compounds too.
Thanks so much for answering!
I did not know you can have the demat with someone else, that’s good then.
“There are no hacks to trust”, fair enough 🙌
Read it again carefully, What I read on official website 50lakhs across all investment offerings
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Hey Sandeep, thanks for doing this!
Have been on Dezerv since almost a year, and it’s done well (13-14% returns)
But I’ve not yet increased my invested amount due to a lack of nudge/being unsure about investing larger sums without a person guiding it.
Curious how you think of fully being tech led vs being people led as you take people to higher capital invested?
Hey Deeply, thanks for trusting us to begin with.
There’s clearly more work ahead but we do provide access to an individual should you want to talk to someone. Over time, we are strengthening our ability to deliver intelligent nudges without (and this is important) spamming you. Via a Whatsapp integration, we do nudge our clients on top-ups especially when markets are down. I am keen to get more feedback, and help you invest further with us. If you are okay to have a conversation with me, please use this link (https://bit.ly/SandeepJcalendly) and book a call. Hopefully, we will get to chat soon.
Thanks again!
Zeus
Stealth
a year ago
Hi Sandeep,
I have a few questions for you :
1) I previously spoke with a Dezerv consultant (possibly from the sales team) early on. At that time, the product didn't appear to have a clear USP in terms of product features, ROI, or monitoring. Many mutual fund distributors, brokers, and traditional wealth managers cover active management and monitoring, although they might not be primarily digital.
What is Dezerv's key differentiator or USP in your opinion which would lead investors to migrate to Dezerv or at least move some portion of their allocation to Dezerv.
2) How do you see Dezerv fitting into an individual's portfolio (which space should it occupy), and what percentage allocation would you recommend?
3) What advice would you offer to someone in their mid-twenties to help them build long-term wealth?
Thank you for your insights.
Hey Zeus,
Thank you for evaluating us!
1. Our early product was (and is still live) a portfolio of well-diligenced mutual funds across equities, fixed income, gold and international assets. Now, we clearly needed to do a better job of communicating the value prop here. A team of experts (with nearly 2 decades of experience each) crafts these portfolios using investment models that have been built carefully, and constantly iterated to improve. About a year ago, we also launched our PMS strategies — which build on these principles, plus operate at zero fixed fees, and only a share of profit. One way to start, is to review your existing portfolio with Wealth Monitor, and we can take it from there. Or you could pick a slot for us to chat here: https://bit.ly/SandeepJcalendly
2. Dezerv’s offerings focus on the core, long-term part of your portfolio. This is ideally the largest part of your investment corpus, one that you want to compound over time without too much volatility. While the answer varies for your risk taking appetite, this core portfolio should be at least about two-thirds of your overall corpus.
3. Mid-twenties is the best time to invest — in yourself! Investing in your own skills at this age is far more important than focusing on the portfolio. Not sure this is the answer you wanted, but I truly believe in this — the best inflation hedge is an investment in your own skills.
Zeus
Stealth
a year ago
Thank you for the elaborate answer Sandeep, this is quite helpful and comprehensive. Will surely reach out and check out Dezerv again.
Was looking for your heartfelt/honest answer on 3 from your own reflections and learnings and got just that.
Thanks a ton !
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I’m someone who admittedly mismanaged their money. Lost a lot in crypto and other risky assets back in 2021.
How should I invest my savings until now and cash flow going forward considering I’m just 27 years old? I’m not risk averse but don’t want to be foolish
Hey ElomDusk,
You’re not alone — 2021 was crazy, and the end of the ZIRP era meant the transition wasn’t going to be easy. The good news? You’re just 27 and you have a whole life of wealth creation ahead of you. I too made my mistakes early in life (2008 happened when I was 27!).
We could set up a chat with one of our investment experts for your situation, but here is a short (if somewhat generic) answer. It’s important you invest in growth assets — which to me at this point is Indian equities. A portfolio of well-diligenced equity mutual funds (both active and passive) that is periodically rebalanced is the way to go. And setting up automated top-ups (or SIPs) helps dollar-cost average as well. Once you’ve accumulated a meaningful corpus, you could increase your risk appetite by evaluating unlisted assets, but — and this is critical — done through SEBI regulated vehicles.
This might be basic, but, I think one differentiator for Dezerv is the fact that you take a commission only if the user makes a profit.
But what stops from other PMS companies from doing the same? Given you were in the industry earlier, did you try making the change internally before building Dezerv?
Hey Careermode, this is a good question (and something we thought about too). We operate in a regulated space, where it isn’t hard to replicate anything, at least in the face of it. But in a way, it requires a fundamental change in the business model, way of approaching things, the team etc. And as they say, culture eats strategy for breakfast and execution eats strategy for lunch.
For somebody early in their professional journey, what would be your advice on how to best save and invest money? If you were 23, what would you do and how would you split your investments to make sure it's optimal?
First up Babel, I’d kill to be 23 in 2023 India 🙂
At this age, keeping your spending low (and not chasing the good life others seem to be living!), building on your skills (including using money to help develop these) and investing in diversified Indian equities is the way to go.
Woah, thanks for the answer! Really cool.
If I can follow up - by diversified Indian equities, do you recomment stocks + MFs or just purely MFs?
Thanks so much sir🙏🏻
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Beertriceps
Stealth
a year ago
1. What are the possible reasons behind the industry-wide inability to measure risk for investment options?
2. How can tech enable wealth management and not product selling?
3. What exactly are account aggregators? Will they potentially help manage investments better?
Hey Beertriceps (LOL on the handle btw),
1. Today the number of investible instruments (across MFs, bonds, stocks, PMS, AIF) runs into tens of thousands. It is no longer possible to analyse information and build recommendations manually. The investment management industry needs to make, well, investments in technology, data science and talent to be able to develop this capability.
2. Tech is a way of thinking — on how we acquire clients, deliver consistent portfolios and engage. To us, it significantly reduces marginal cost across the above areas, thereby enabling us to work on for instance, zero fees and only share of upside models (in case of our PMS).
3. Account Aggregation is a game changing event for the investment management industry. Today, it is hard for a portfolio manager/investment advisor to correctly assess the risk appetite, previous investment experience and recommend timely action without detailed and live information on your current portfolio, and overall financial situation. With AA, this gets addressed. At Dezerv, we are super pumped about the developments here.
CarelessLab
Stealth
a year ago
what life looks like when u are at the position where millions of folks want to be. want to know your metnal peace, happiness
How do you make money?
(I’m pro you — or any company — making money btw. I’m also invested in dezerv but I don’t know your model).
First up, thanks for recognising that any model needs to have monetisation — if the product is free, then well, you are the product! In the case of our PMS offering, we make money when we deliver returns — zero fixed fees, only a share of upside. In the case of our portfolios which are a basket of mutual funds, we are paid by the asset management companies — this averages to approx 0.4 - 0.6% per annum across the portfolio.
Thanks. I’m probably among your first customers but never got a clear answer (trust me I tried). It’s the main reason why I never topped up / did an SIP with you.
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Hey Sandeep ,
Firstly Great app !!
I have tried the app and got some suggestions after selecting aggresive patterns. It does say that you'll invest my money in bucket of MFs .
I can easily add them in my coin / AMC account and go ahead with your suggestion. I believe there is something I'm missing like the suggestion are dynamic and they will change over time . Can you explain more ?
Yea, even if it is dynamic. What is stopping me from running an SIP of 10k (any arbitrary small amount) and replicating the same rebalancing in the DIY mode with a high SIP model. I pay little in charges to deserv and get all the benefits, what's the catch?
StartupBaba
Stealth
a year ago
Why should you even pay that much charges when you can invest in direct mutual funds
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Hey Sandeep, this is interesting - what is the best way to get in touch with your team without needing to speak with someone in sales but a super informed person directly?
The problem with wealth management is there are too many sales people which leads to a lack of knowing who to trust.
amanbhawnani
Student
a year ago
Hi Sandeep, grateful for this opportunity to ask you questions.
What makes Dezerv unique in terms with its value proposition? Are all the analysis and analytics down through in house tech or through outsourced materials?
Also, your outlook for the private wealth / wealth tech space in India?
Lastly, hearing a lot of debate between direct and regular funds…Direct does save a lot in the long run but I do believe that if any individual is not in this industry he/she shall appoint an advisor for their investment journey as same category MF differences are roughly 20-25%. Hence, the advisor will be in tact with his research team and timely actions can be taken on your portfolio.
Also I feel regular based mutual funds are not a bad thing if your advisor is doing justice to your money.
Hey Aman,
1. All analytical models are built entirely in-house. We work hard to keep these models relevant and constantly improve on them,
2. Indian investment management industry has tremendous tailwinds, with growing proportion of financial assets in savings and greater formalisation of our economy, this is one space that is set to grow exponentially.
3. I agree with you, at least partly. Direct funds are cheaper (and we do use them in our PMS solutions where we charge success fees). You should weigh the lower cost vs the need for handholding and incremental returns. A lot of investing is not just about where to deploy the money but what to do with the current investments, and that needs somebody reviewing actively.
Hey Sandeep,
I have had a discussion either dezerv team. I didn’t go ahead because of trust factor.
All my earlier and current PMS providers always were someone who take a fixed amount for n years and minimum of X amount. However the concept of percentage which I believe dezerv employs currently does sound good on paper but is somewhat concerning for me. Why did you guys go that way?
Hey CrazyBats,
Thanks for talking to us, and happy to chat directly via this link: https://bit.ly/SandeepJcalendly
At Dezerv, we believe we should be completely aligned with our clients. And the best way we could figure is that we should make money only if we deliver returns. Which means that if we don’t, we don’t make money, or make less if the returns we deliver are not good. In a fixed fee model, the manager makes money irrespective of performance. But, happy to chat further on this.
Hi Sandeep.
Have a couple of questions.
1. What is your TG with Dezerv?
2. In the last 15 years have people changed the way they perceive money in terms of earning and spending?
3. What is your approach for creating trust?
4. Taking loss for growth is this a justified approach? How does it vary across sectors?
Smurfminion
Stealth
a year ago
Hey Sandeep!
What are your thoughts on hiring for non tech roles? How do you go about choosing someone with a Tier 1/2 MBA with no experience vs someone without an MBA but with 2-3 YOE?
What are the factors you look at and what are your thoughts on salaries for non engineering roles like those of strategy, growth, product management, finance, etc.
Would love to hear your thoughts
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