Unlike the people in startups where small teams handle multiple services of more than one domain, so they get a bigger picture of how things work end to end, is this the same case in companies with...

Unlike the people in startups where small teams handle multiple services of more than one domain, so they get a bigger picture of how things work end to end, is this the same case in companies with multiple teams, as many people might only know what their team does

Do engineers have org wide understanding in big companies

Software Developer

Do engineers have org wide understanding in big companies- Grapevine

Welcome to Indian Startups's Private Community

Do engineers in bigger organisations have org wide understanding

Welcome to Software Engineers's Private Community

How does the engineering structure in your org look like? For eg. it can be:

1 CTO, 3 VPs, 6EMs, 9 SDEIII, 15SDE I and II. 5 in DevOps, 2 in Security. 

I’m trying to get a sense of how different sized companies are structuring their team. It would be great if you can share the name of the org, if not that’s okay too. 

Also, in your personal opinion is the structure good? For eg. some of you might be spread too thin and you might not find enough time from your lead or Sr. Engg.

Engineering Structure in your org

Software Engineer

1. You are building a software that otherwise could be built by a 12 year old kid, if given proper training.
2. You cannot code if I cut off google, stackoverflow & related websites.
3. You are just concerned about producing the output quickly because a. your work is time bound, b. you want to stand out from others.
4. You attend countless meetings that carry no value, thanks to Agile.
5. 10 people write code for the same software which otherwise could have been written by 1 person.
6. You write pages of documents just because you are expected to write for the team, compliance & stuff.
7. You don’t care about non-functional requirements as nobody asked for it.
8. You are spending hours together in coding a simple thing & you are branded a hard-worker.
9. Or you don’t spend much time in coding because you impress people with tech jargons that you learnt recently. You are branded a smart-worker.
10. The code you write will be completely rewritten in next 3-4 years just to catch up with the industry trends.
11. Your only goal is to earn loads of money which otherwise could not be earned in other engineering fields. That’s one of the reasons why you are on grapevine.

Prove me wrong if you can, by commenting your opinion.

Software engineering job is highly overrated. Prove me wrong if you can.

Tell me you are a mediocre programmer/ work with mediocre programmers /an idiot without telling me you are.

Founder

Software Architect

Welcome to Product Managers's Private Community

Have a interview scheduled for tomorrow.

have already had 2 rounds of interview - one with Chief Product Officer and Principal Product Manager.

Now they have scheduled an interview with Director of Engineering.

Company is US based MNC.

How should I go about preparation?

any tips, suggestions welcome.

Product interview with engineering director. what should I prepare?

Product Manager

Consultant, Investment Banking went from sought after careers to fads post 2008 crisis when the world realized that these folks are crooks due to their role in propogating the Great Financial Crisis.

Given the backlash tech companies has been getting and global layoffs, will Product Manager also become a passing fad?

Seeing lot of anti Product Manager sentiment on this app off late. Was Product Management also a fad?

Someone here said engineers can become PM but PM can't become engineers. It can't be more correct than this. But reality is, it sounds goods only in theory.  
  
  I asked this same question to my director, why have you hired us when engineers clearly know more about products than us and are capable?  His answered that before the organisation formally created a team of product managers, it was only engineers that were handling product for decades. But that resulted into substandard products being developed, chaotic product release and consistent drop in revenue. The reason being engineers became backlog managers and engineers beging engineers, never focused on business value. Instead, they focused on technical aspect heavily. Engineers never bothered to check if what they were developing will actually sell in the market or not.  
  
 And mind you, this was a product that all of us use in daily lives. The numbers of users in India alone would be millions. So to summarise, yes, engineers can become PMs but generally they stay loyal to their pedigree of BE/B.Tech and become very shitty PMs. They like to have more technical conversations than strategic discussions and hate things that are not quantifiable, subjective. And business facing people here in forum would know, things are always not quantifiable in business planning, market outlook. It is based on assumptions.  
  
 An excellent PM would be someone who is an engineer but knows how to focus on business value of the product, make it customer oriented etc. I had the pleasure of working of one such PM in my last stint and he was truly outstanding. CEO knew him personally and this is in an organization with thousands of employees

Program Manager

I am honestly just furious at the pay difference between the salary of an sde and a pm. Both work just as hard.

Why are project managers paid less?

Solution Architect

1. They are the most overpaid people in India.
2. They have no work life balance and they don't even know what it means.
3. They think they are the best at everything, but they can't do anything right.
4. They are always complaining about their job and how much they hate it.
5. They are never satisfied with their salary or benefits package.
6. They are always looking for new jobs because they think they deserve better than what they currently have.

Would you like to add anything else here?

Software Engineers as seen by a Product Manager...

PM as seen by Engineers: 
 1. Doesn't do anything other than throwing random jargons 
 2. Can't explain what they do other than say how they are not Program manager or something else

How's the wlb and job security ? Is it true that they fire few people every year ?

How is life as a software engineer in Goldman Sachs India ?

I am a 6 yrs experienced Software developer and part of a mid-stage startup. This is my third job; I have been working here for 3 years. I was involved here as one of the core engineers at the start in developing the overall platform, After that, my growth as an engineer stagnated for 2 years . 

Constant importance and priority are given to business requirements and hacky work getting pushed to production in the name of fast iterations and business impact every week. 

My engineering manager lacks proper engineering skills and doesn't respect engineers even after their impact on the company and constantly keeps saying the engineering team doesn't contribute to the revenue of the company despite us pushing work that improves business positively. 

Last year around November, around 80% of the engineering team was subtly suggested to start looking out for work (basically a soft layoff) because management was too scared of a social media backlash

Due to all this,2 years' worth of technical debt has accumulated on the overall codebase and apart from giving justification for every code improvement that we try to make there, we still have to work on business/product requirements. 

My growth as an engineer has stopped and I am worried about missing out on the latest developments in the tech industry, especially with AI in the picture, and want to make my skillset somewhat AI-proof. I have come back to hands-on coding this year , so that's a positive start. I am considering taking a 3-4 month break after resigning from my company to study, develop side projects, develop a portfolio etc

Has anyone else been in this boat ? How did you come out strong?

Side Effects of working at startups

What is the Tech Team Hierarchy Structure in your organisation? From SDE-1 to CTO? Curious about the structure of Unicorns (CRED, Zomato, Swiggy, Urban Company, Viacom18).

Tech Team Structure 🌟

I'm seeing so many posts where startup employees are cribbing about things like layoffs, work culture etc etc. Doesn't seem like they have perspective on everything it takes to build a startup. I've built a failed startup myself and have immense respect for founders who are grinding it out there in such difficult recessionary circumstances. 

And then you have so many of the engineers and PMs cribbing about basics without talking about important things like learning growth, building for the future etc. Why such myopia? I work at a big tech and envy the speed at which startups move, the big responsibility everyone gets to handle, the fast career growth. All these things are being cribbed about. They crib about founders wanting more. Their job is to ensure success, not to give lifetime jobs to entitled people. They have more headaches you can imagine. In my small startup I had a million headaches. I can only imagine how hard it must be to run larger ships. Is everyone joining a startup these days looking for a get rich quick scheme?

Why are startup folks so entitled?

If you can’t run a business that lets people have a normal life then you’re the one who thinks they’re entitled to employees. 
 Businesses must take risk, employees don’t. Stop your whining that people won’t support shitty business plans

Growth Manager

Indian SDEs on LinkedIn & Twitter are some of the worst engineers you will ever find across the real world. Their typical value lies around:

- Cracking a FAANG/MAANG or Product company.
- Make an announcement on LinkedIn & Twitter and accumulating followers.
- Starting YouTube channel, Topmate links, affiliate marketing channels, and more.
- Rant DSA, System Design, Interview resources all day long. 
- Post daily of their office, their colleagues, candid shots, and barely getting any work done.

While this is expected out of early career professionals, it pains to see senior SDEs doing the same shit over and over again. Things don't end here — Everyone talks about creating a revolution. And the revolution is teaching DSA. 

If you are an experienced SDE and still ranting DSA, it just means that you have barely learnt anything that is of worth any value. You are atmost a "Ticket Engineer". You get assigned a Jira ticket, you bust your ass solving it, and that's it. That's your entire value. 

Its high time that these "Bhaiya", "Didis", "Bhabhis" stop ranting DSA and System Design over and over, and build something of real value. You would barely see any credible open-source projects coming out of India (but hey, we have some many contributors!), barely any Indie dev project, or anything that captures the attention of the world. 

Literally every popular SDE you might follow or see over your social media is the same. Their entire community game is a farce and designed to capture gullible college students and shill thousands of rupees out of them. You might be featured on Times Square ($40 ka showoff), but no one would remember you for anything that you built.

<Rant Over. Peace>

Indian SDEs will do all DSA and System Design chatter but cannot create any real value

Welcome to Business Roles's Private Community

People with growth in your title, what do you actually do and how? What skills are needed?

What do Growth professionals really do?

1. High pressure on timelines- business and top management shits on you if you don’t deliver on time
2. No power to control the outcome- engineers don’t listen to you neither does the design or analytics team, you end up begging for resources
3. Too much politics- business or a senior PM can steal your bandwidth anytime
4. Lack of recognition- if it succeeds business did it, if it fails it is product teams fault (engg never gets blamed for shit)

I believe Product Management is a really toxic role

Would you rather be an Engineer learning how to Product or a Product Manager learning how to Engineer?

Answer is obvious mate. And it's already in motion. 
 Everyone knows current product management breed is a messed up fraudulent bunch. They will run into poverty if they don't change ways🙂

Founding Engineer

If absolutely all software engineers obsess over business metrics rather than technology it would be net-net great outcome for the ecosystem as well for the individual economically, socially.

I find it childish when a CTO/Architect/Principal engineer obsess over code & infra architecture, low level/high level design, scalability.

Outcome:
---
I want engineers at all seniority levels and all disciplines must only care about biz metrics. Product management should cease to exist. 

Everything tech will fall into place. 

If you were the product manager of the "bangalore", how would you approach this?

One approach i thought -
---
To get into Bangalore tech ecosystem you must need a certification from a institution (For ex: Tech School), absolutely mandatory from this school irrespective of your college background. 

This tech school will allow everyone to enter, online lectures, teach customer empathy, research, industry standard tech, product management, design. Aim is to set correct mindset for growth and first principle thinking. 

This will make college background irrelevant.

What can we do to make software engineers obsess over business metrics rather than tech

There is a lot of content around entry level ( leetcode, DSA, cp, projects to shine your resume yada yada) to score a high salary tech job as a fresher.

But my question to seasoned folks in the industry, what does it actually take to become a really solid engineer to sustain yourself in the industry and lead teams 5-7 years down the line rather than doing all this resume padding stuff?

Beyond DSA And Dev

I'm a lead engineer at a small-mid Indian Saas company. 
Been at the company for more than 6 years (total yoe 8+) and used to like the company and culture, alway top performer.
Had been managing my team really well, mentoring them.. 
juggling multiple projects, reducing tech debt, improving developer experience.. 
and I enjoyed it.

Now the company is trying to transition my role to more of a technical product manager where I have to think about how to improve the product, new features, take customer feedback, understand business analytics, usage, adoption, iteratively improve and deliver value.

I'm not sure if I'm ready for this role. 
I hate this MBA shizz.

What should I do? Try to like this, work on it and ace it?
or let my management know that this is not what I signed up for..

I feel low at work because I'm not able to meet my expectations (let alone my manager's)

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