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Product Manager

Software developers vs product managers in terms of compensation, who is gonna earn more in long term or where the ceiling of income is higher , what is the opportunities for product managers waiti...

Welcome to Product Managers's Private Community

Software developers vs product managers in terms of compensation, who is gonna earn more in long term or where the ceiling of income is higher , what is the opportunities for product managers waiting in near future with the tech landscape changing rapidly and advancements in AI ? Is it dim or bright

SWEs vs PMs

SWEs vs PMs- Grapevine

Welcome to Software Engineers's Private Community

I have overall 4 YOE in software engineering space now and have been considering long term view of my career and what my future would look like.

Is MBA a better choice for long term growth and trajectory, I have been working primary in frontend software engineering space and still find it exciting and challenging due to new changes and updates coming everyday.

But is product management better for the long term, what is the career graph for frontend engineers after maybe 10-12 YOE ?

Also how does AI impact both roles in the long term ? Any past software engineers turned PMs what are your thoughts?

Frontend SDE vs MBA

Software Engineer

Today a poll was conducted in my WhatsApp group for people who are planning for ms by the fall 2025 at US that wha roles are they targeting post their masters and majority of them are voted for product management so I want to ask is the product management is becoming new norm or it's just fomo among engineering grads like it was for software development 2-4 yrs back. Also what's the future of PMs in terms of salary, growth with advancement in AI tools

The PM trend

For most part of last decade, product managers commanded a healthy premium in compensation over their business counterparts. This is largely how tech companies globally have operated, and what we have mirrored. But as the Indian tech ecosystem has matured over the last few years, a couple of the underlying assumptions have changed:

One, ten years back, there was an explosion of startups and they were all in the market for "experienced product managers", and in a still nascent tech industry, such talent was in scarcity - thus triggering a premium positioning. Now, arguably, the equation has reversed: there are far more people entering the trade / in the profession with <5 years experience, than there are open roles in the market. And more critically, the growth rate of "product positions" has stagnated: particularly since product is a high-leverage function and does not scale linearly with company growth (but instead only with growth in # of companies).

Two, most Indian startups / tech companies are not product-led unlike Silicon Valley ventures. Instead, a vast majority are operating businesses. These companies tend to have dedicated business teams who take up primary ownership of the business goals and thus, call the shots. In such setups, product managers play second fiddle as a bridge function to tech. Worse, product managers who scaled in such environments, they end up playing that part too: too focused on tech / design execution with not as much depth on the business understanding. In post-covid boom, we got the tailwind of being an engineering-adjacency in a techno-optimistic market. Now the same tides have turned and as a "generalist tech function", we are under scrutiny for wage-bill pressure.

Do you foresee a correction in PM salaries? How soon (1y / 3y / 5y), and to what extent (10% / 20% / 30%) will the market correct itself?

Is PM salary due for a correction?

Investor

Met a PM from IIT / IIM with 4 years of experience. He is working at a  well know soonicorn at a salary of 17  lakhs per year . He used to draw 30 lakhs per year in his last role before we was laid off . Interesting Times ahead

PM Salaries Have Crashed.

A minute of silence to all the grapevine polls where salary expectations are so high 😁

Growth Manager

Product Owner

1. They are the most overpaid people in India.
2. They have no work life balance and they don't even know what it means.
3. They think they are the best at everything, but they can't do anything right.
4. They are always complaining about their job and how much they hate it.
5. They are never satisfied with their salary or benefits package.
6. They are always looking for new jobs because they think they deserve better than what they currently have.

Would you like to add anything else here?

Software Engineers as seen by a Product Manager...

PM as seen by Engineers: 
 1. Doesn't do anything other than throwing random jargons 
 2. Can't explain what they do other than say how they are not Program manager or something else

Sharing some reflections on this:

1. Product is not a function with a large hierarchy / multiple levels in the ladder. Managerial responsibility comes in very late in the product career and the spans are typically small (relative to other functions like engineering, sales, operations). This also means a steeper funnel to the top and only a handful VP Product roles in the industry.

2. Product is centered around technology and digital consumer trends, both of which are fast changing. This requires constant unlearning and relearning. But more critically, this also means that previous knowledge/experience hits a plateau on marginal value beyond a basic threshold (where you have developed some essential product semse and skills).

3. Product managers are also much higher-paid vs other functional peers, at comparable years of experience. This means that a PM gets to a very high salary (say, 1+ crore) by the age of 40 (15-20y into their career). Tech functions in non-tech companies (like FMCG, banking) cannot offer that kind of pay, meaning salary growth beyond a point is limited to tech-first companies / limiting addressable market for lateral moves.

All of these considererd, how should PMs think about the longevity of their careers? Unlike traditional roles, this does not seem like a "retire at 60" job. What would be the realistic age one should plan for, at which career growth and salary growth will stagnate? What are ways in which a 80%ile PM can extend their career (eg: also taking up engineering management or P&L responsibility or growth function etc., to increase scope)?

PS: this post is not for the top 5-10% PMs. They will always find roles at VP level etc, this is for the 50-90%ile bucket of PM talent.

Longevity of a product career

Will commend you on a very well written and well articulated post. 
  
 Options for the future will be apparent at ~40.  Most peak roles will be achieved between 45-50. 
  
 Possible exits: 
  
 1. Running Category roles at companies which have a broad canvas, multiple product categories. 
 2. Deputing for and eventually running a P&L or a LoB. 
 3. Sales or more critically Customer Success.  Don't shy away from revenue responsibilities. 
  
 Engineering is a sharp left turn imo.  It's not an overlapping skillset at best and don't see how that is part of a PMs likely roadmap.

Sales Manager

I have been lately curious about the two PMs (Product Manager vs Program Manager).
If anyone can help with answer to these questions that would be great

Does your company have both roles?
If yes, are salaries for both on par.
If not, who gets more salary

Product Manager vs Program Manager

It’s clear that companies won’t need engineers 10 years from now. 

They’ll just need people who know what to make. Who to sell to. How to sell to. At what price. 

This will be the great commoditization of Software development

Take it or leave it.

[Hot Take] AI will make SWEs redundant, PMs and Marketers will become the most important job

This is an L take for someone who works at Google
It is supremely obvious that SWEs are about to enter the golden era of Software Engineering. We are easily foreseeing 2x-2.5x improvement in developer productivity rate. You should go touch some grass or else you will end up becoming PM guru who shills substandard-courses to poor kids.

Product Marketing Manager

Money in engineering vs product

Senior Product Manager

Hi,

8 YOE, Security engineer trying to switch to PM role. Studied everything related to PM. Joined cohort based course who promised interviews but nothing came. Currently writing cold emails.

I am expert at cyber security who can understand code, write scripts, do front end dev, can design

What should I do to land a PM role?

Trying to find PM role for past 6 months without success. What should I do?

Security Engineer

It's time we face an uncomfortable truth: AI is coming for our jobs, and it's coming fast. But it might be the best thing that has happened to ProdMan. Here's why:

1. AI will eliminate mediocrity because significant portion of PMs are just glorified project managers or feature pushers. AI will easily replace these roles.

2. True product thinking will finally be more valued. Those who can strategize, innovate, and truly understand user needs will become indispensable. The era of the "fake it till you make it" PM is over. I am seeing this across my org now.

3. This will finally help us focus on outcomes, not outputs. AI can churn out roadmaps and PRDs faster than any human. This will push PMs to concentrate on the "why" rather than the "what".

4. Finally, WLB will be better for all of us. With AI doing the heavy work, the remaining PMs can focus on high-value activities, potentially reducing burnout.

5. This will lead to democratization of product skills. Basic PM tasks will become automated and more people across organizations will develop product thinking. So you need less PMs as is.

Now, I know this is a hard pill to swallow. Many of you will probably say that the human element in ProdMan can't be replaced. But ask yourself... In a world where AI can analyze user data, predict trends, and even generate creative solutions, what truly sets you apart?

Those who adapt with AI will thrive. Those who don't... well, there's always project management. 🤡
What do you think?

AI Will Replace 50% of Product Managers soon, and that's a good thing...

I was preparing for Product roles for quite some times, But as far as i am seeing software engineers are paid more, so shoud i start preparing for software domain now or stick to the product role.

Please advice

Final Year student

1. High pressure on timelines- business and top management shits on you if you don’t deliver on time
2. No power to control the outcome- engineers don’t listen to you neither does the design or analytics team, you end up begging for resources
3. Too much politics- business or a senior PM can steal your bandwidth anytime
4. Lack of recognition- if it succeeds business did it, if it fails it is product teams fault (engg never gets blamed for shit)

I believe Product Management is a really toxic role

Do you think product management would still be relevant? Have you thought of any fallback career options?

Where do you see product management in next 5-10 years?

Welcome to Business Roles's Private Community

Young SWE start with double digit salaries, while someone in Non tech will need 5-10 years to reach that level
Even the business roles, the direct revenue generating roles don't pay good traditionally

Funny how techies think everyone gets paid similar
A lot of it changed with startups trying to acquire talent, but not sustainable
Because the market simply doesn’t pay

How do non tech compete with this skewed demand-supply chain?

Tech and Non tech Pay Partiality is something no one talks about

Engineers deserve their pay.  
  
 1 - The code that engineers write are assets of a company. The code might keep running and serving customers for years after a engineer has probably even left the company.  
 On the other hand, the work that most non-tech folks do are not assets, but an operational expense.  
  
 Companies don't derive benefit of a non-tech even beyond the same month the work is performed.  
  
 The difference is the same as painting your house vs brushing your teeth. You don't paint your house everyday but you do brush your teeth. Painting here is a long lasting asset, adds to the value of the house. Brushing is necessary work but with ultimately perishable benefits.  
  
 2 - Code that engineers write provide non-linear benefits. A team of 30 in Zerodha were able to serve 3-5x more customers in the pandemic. This same scalability does not apply to non-tech majdoori. Business has scaled? Hire more heads. Not with code. 
  
  
 Obviously above does not apply to senior managerial folks who build and architect the organisation, set the cultures, create processes. The impact of their work is long lasting and non-linear. But work of junior business non-tech folks - well, they're getting paid as much as the value they create. Low leverage, low pay. Coding is very high leverage. 
  
 Before you jump on me, I worked for sales in years. Then shifted to product. Above two points are a reality whether you like it or not.

Consultant

Welcome to Data Scientists's Private Community

I am and sde. Earning less as I have to have wfh. 15-20lpa, currently in lead with about 6+ yoe. Plus some on the side. 

I am interested in data science. I have been studying.

But how do I make the switch.

Will my sde exp be counted?

Which companies to approach.

Should I do projects?

Please help.

How to switch

Software Lead

Hey everyone, excited to be doing this AMA!

A brief about me, I work currently as a Director of Product at an Indian unicorn startup 

About my career: 
- Did my undergrad from IIT and then masters from an Ivy league school
- Have been in product for almost 10 years now - across 2 Indian unicorn startups and a publicly listed company

Would love to take questions on what it means to be a PM, growing within the role, building your career, and other things :) 

Will be back here at 4 pm and start replying
Shoot away!

AMA 🎙️: Hey all, I am pmsprint, Director of Product Management at a Unicorn in India!

With talks of PMs not being required last year, to crazy layoffs scene and PM hiring being the indicator of industry hiring scene, how do you folks deal with the anxiety? With PM hiring being skewed towards supply side, do you think about contingency plans in case you are fired?
Too much anxiety being a PM with 5 years experience and salary being the only income source.

PMs, how do you make yourself layoff proof?

Everyone and their mother became a product manager in the last few years. How safe are these jobs in a recession. I often hear (from engineers who don’t hide their disdain for PMs so maybe a biased opinion) that they are the first one to let go. Is that true?

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