Engineers saying pms shouldn't exist should for once get what they want. Most engineers I know get anxious enough to take leaves once a customer shouts at them lol
Damn straight. Majority of Indian Developers are terrible at communicating. Either it's bad English or they are shy or they simply don't have an open mind to hear someone out.
Someone makes a suggestion and all they see are more sprint points. Which is fair, that's what they do most of the time. But I don't like it when they diss on other departments as being "unnecessary" and have an air of superiority. Like hey dev bro, it's a team effort. Without the larger team you'll be developing an IRCTC which will be useless, uncompetitive, unusable and ugly. (Wow, the 4U's. That's pretty cool that i just can't up with that. )
True. So many folks got into PM just to get tech salaries and are fairly criticised but the number of such people in dev is insanely high. Most devs in India are like infosys will write "I am on asshole" on the product if jira has it, no thought whatsoever. Since PM jobs are hard and less the worse PMs get filtered out or move to corporate farily quickly but have seen enough devs do nothing but sit in startups jumping from one org to another
Absolutely. Most Devs either don't know enough about the product or they don't care.
I'm a designer, and I have huge respect for PMs.
Some can be assholes, sure. But the good ones are invaluable in building a product well.
Interesting observation. Maybe the engineers you know are just trying to take a break from PMs who can’t differentiate between constructive feedback and shouting.
Pro Tip: Strong communication leads to fewer anxious engineers 😉
#MicDrop
Nope it is definitely shouting. A work for indian b2b saas and they treat you like your dev shop if they pay you
This #MicDrop moment looks good in sophisticated tech-obsessed companies. Talk to people in Manufacturing, Sales obsessed orgs, it will become an interesting learning :)
I'm seeing many engineers build in public, plus building personal brands and communities in the last 5 years or so.
I'm actually not sure PMs are as necessary if designers and engineers can work well enough together.
PMs are necessary at a scale. Ideal is CEO doing Pm Work and not caught up in the investor bs. And I am total aligned on your point, I myself am building projects but I can tell you after spending three months talking to devs the build in public devs are rare gems, they are better at product than most pms because most pms are stuck solving for bs management. The avg dev is honestly very very dumb when it comes to business
Agreed, CEOs are ideal PMs and also are actually responsible for leading the product too.
But I don't think business is something you can't learn. I'm a generalist specialised in design and marketing, yet I handle the product as well as help with financial planning because we're bootstrapped and early stage.
The more interdisciplinary work someone does, the more they learn and grow through experience from different domains.
Plus there are enough tools, automations and resources available for devs to leverage and not need large teams. Plenty of small sized teams in SaaS are killing it while still being lean af.
All those Dev bhaiya/bhabhis screwing up kids is the proof that dev ecosystem need to mature.
Thread is becoming lit😂
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Do you think pure product managers with no technical background add value to your company? Aren't experienced project managers with penchant for business more suitable for this role?