“Aise founders ko laat maarke naali mei phenk do.” 
 - Kunal Shah 
  
 (Kunal Shah is a 22 year old intern at EY from Hyderabad)

Analyst

It represents the lies that employers push on the employees.

Software Engineer

(This pic is just a reference, my query is a bit generic)  I usually see founders make loud claims of their company/brand as baby but when it comes to team shoots, they make everyone else wear the ...

Welcome to Indian Startups's Private Community

(This pic is just a reference, my query is a bit generic)

I usually see founders make loud claims of their company/brand as baby but when it comes to team shoots, they make everyone else wear the brand but keep themselves far away from it. 

I understand, they want to create the employee-employer difference (against family narrative) but to me it's a bit strange. Any explanations, sharing on this?

Founders dilemma?

Product Manager

Founders dilemma?- Grapevine

Welcome to Confessions's Private Community

It's getting dirtier by the day and sure some orgs are still up to their dirty tricks.

The models:
- Appraise and then Lay Off: Why bother putting bandaid on a stab wound? Anyways the folks are going to fight how to answer the ..why were you laid off war, and now you are adding another twist.. why were you appraised and then laid off?
- Low appraisals to force quit: Undervalue them so they leave on their own. It’s a leeches way to cut costs. Kill morale 100%. Severance penny spent $0.
- Trap them in PIP: Dress it up however you want - very very few escape this death sentence.
- Silent treatment: No assignments, No meetings. Watch them spiral into anxiety and leave to save their sanity.
- Workload overload: Drown them in work until they break. No need for layoffs list until they make it to your collapse list first.
- Strategic reorg: Re-organize them out of existence. Offer a demotion or a proxy role in a random team that you know they dont want as an alternative. 
- Sudden policy changes: oh! I have seen so many I can't keep up with this one. 
New policies that make their life hell. People leave to escape your pettiness.
- Mandatory relocation: Demand they move to an undesirable location. Then you treat remote employees like outsiders. Exclude them from key projects, conversations until they feel like foster care kids, second-class citizens. You know the outcome from there on.
- Use the "Culture Fit" excuse: Call out how they’re not a culture fit. Vague, unchallengeable, and forces them out without severance.

And don't sell me "the org has got to do what it has got to do to survive" line. I don't buy that
If you have seen this being done, I understand your silence, but I don't value it.
If this has been done to you or someone close to you, I am sorry. Orgs and the people failed you. 
We could be 1000x better than what we are operating as.

dirty tricks played by orgs to Lay Off employees

Founder

Human Resource

Founders be sharing quotes about life, learning and all sorts of things on social media, but when you see them in real, you'll get a clear sense of ego, pride and "I know it all" vibe, so clear in the way they talk. Please be a human first, founder second. 

"Leadership is a potent combination of strategy and character. But if you must be without one, be without the strategy."

Norman Schwarzkopf

Founders in today's era

While the company is doing absolutely poorly and laying off people left right and centre, the two so-called founders are on vacation to the US chilling and hanging out with people.

It's a disgrace that the Indian startup ecosystem has founders like them who are busy expanding their social and financial status at the cost of employee wellbeing and mental health.

What a disappointment.

Double faced founders

Program Manager

I recently worked at a startup and it was terrible. 

To be honest, I still worked at one of the better ones but it just sucked. 

Some of the clear downsides I see 

- Survival mode leads to chaos. You can be treated anyway and asked to leave whenever  even though you left big opportunities to be here 
- Brand loss to find next job (Big problem)
- Trying to make you feel unworthy(Doesn't bother me but I have seen people lose self confidence)
- Loss of opportunity to build real skills like building sustainable teams for the long run

I think over all working at a startup especially early teams is a losing proposition. Do it only if -
 - you know the founders/team well 
- you know the industry and market well and it is a bet you personally believe in
- you are secure enough in life that if you go back to your job, you will easily get employed 


For middle class kids, startups are the worst bets one can take.

Working at startups is terrible

Product Designer

Any thoughts on this. Why do Founders always portray themselves as superheroes? Is normal job only meant for peasants like us?

Welcome to Office Gossip's Private Community

Literally, every single Founder I've encountered here seems to be an old, regressive, hard-headed boomer who hates the younger generation for their freedom.
 
Go through some DINK or WFH or Salary Rant posts and you'll be able to spot them. They are rigid in their mindset and call anyone who disagrees a degenerate, entitled, and (my personal favourite) 'influenced by the western media' lol.

Let's just ignore these morons and keep on bettering our life

Why is every single "Founder" here an a*shole?

Backend Engineer

Been in this company for about 8 months. Company is great but there’s just this team that works on all the important things that’s absolutely hard to keep up with. They don’t share anything with us till the last minute. 
I was asked to share some copy for something and when I asked was more information, I was told that it’s “confidential”. I just pointed out that I can’t do anything about it if I’m not given more info. I’ve been begging for more responsibilities the past couple of months. I’m okay with mediocrity and just warming the bench for a few weeks. But can’t let my career take a fall with that. 
I’ve jumped between jobs too many times, I last a year at best everywhere and I want to stay here for a while and build up. But the more I watch them, making plans with the founders, doing their thing and hiring new people, all the while I’m here asking to be seen, it feels like this is just how it’s going to be. 
I get paid well, I spend only about 2 to 3 hours working everyday. Might sound like the ideal job for some but I definitely feel like if a layoff comes, I’ll bite the dust because I was not given the opportunity to be part of this group and did nothing important.

The core team feels like a gang that everyone else can never infiltrate

Growth Manager

A company called loop health started allowing remote work and hiring in early 2022 soon after receiving $25 million dollars investment. 
Founders are a great pair in the initial but as soon after investment of series A , difference broke out and one of the co-founders left the company in the name of sabbatical from backdoor out. He was visionary and had great product sense which the CEO got jealous of and stopped him at all the cost of investors recognising him. Anyway now the real unhealthy thing is not this story but due to this product the scope got messed up and customers started complaining and renewals badly hit to 60-80%. The competitor got them easily , one of the sales people said on call at a loop that loop company customers are easy to catch for competitors.
Now the real story is, the CEO wanted only the Pune office to survive and all remote employees to leave so he did a little magic ✨. Instead of laying off people, strategically not compensating anyone started layoff from the beginning of the 2023 this year by asking each outsider to resign and leave. The strategy was simple, 
Find weakness and make them accept simple mistakes as well and ask them to resign. At the same time, hire contractors at Pune to join and work. If any employee is strong or doesn't want to leave then make them contract employees and expect work in the same way.
This is not at all acceptable and the CEO is not alone on this. CEO, CTO , CPO involved plan. 
The problem with this approach is unfair practices, if someone makes a mistake they won't give any PIP plan. They just fire them in easy  ways to resign. CEO proudly says he wants great tennis 🎾 team but infact ceo is just a ball boy.

Loop is unhealthy!

Data engineer

Is this guy for real?

IIT grad here building a venture backed startup. I think 99% of folks here believe that venture backed founders are super entitled and in a much "cosier" position than employees

Just sharing a few facts about our journey so far if it helps anyone improve their perspectives-

1) Paying ourselves 33% of our campus salary & 60% of what we are paying to our employees (Talking about Pure Base Salary here, not including ESOPs)

2) Insane stress - You basically have to raise money to build (esp if its deeptech because of the high fixed costs) and there are predefined metrics you have to always chase, sometimes just beyond yourselves. 

Your product will be copied if it's good because well, they always have more money than you. You work 7 days a week for insane hours, chasing metrics required to be "afloat" 

3) 99% of venture backed startups result in 0 liquidity gain for founders. So basically in all likeliness, everything is for a net negative return compared to if we took the campus job

So, when you wholeheartedly bash founders as if they are sitting On a goldmine while you are toiling for THEIR gold Treasure, just understand that more likely than not, there is not really any gold but rather an irrational hope they are clinging to

Also, Yes-we pay above market to our employees (100% hike for the last one) but the truth is some startups just Can't afford it. And ironically, there is a much higher looking down on these startups with meagurely paid founders rather than giants like Tech Mahindra paying peanuts to their employees while having a 1000% salary hike for the executives. 

Yeah, most startups need to do better but please appreciate if someone is atleast trying to do better because trust me, it's INSANELY HARD.. 

The number of posts I see about Flipkart making hundreds millionaires is way too less than the ones I see about pinpointing at every single mistake early stage startups do & I just wanted to express my opinion on it

Peace!

People way overestimate the life of founders

Oh no poor founders, they have to pay fair salary to their employees.

Just wanted to know why and how come our companies have horrible WLB and cultures compared to western counterparts. Is it the fault of the employees for accepting whatever and acting like sheep or is it just the mindset of the senior management to treat their subordinates the same horrible way they were treated as some sort of sick rite of passage ?

Why do Indian Companies / Indian management have horrible work life balance and cultures compared to others  ?

Assistant Manager

It's more difficult finding a job as a founder I've realised

1. If your venture is still continuing, they don't trust that you'll work enough at the job. 

2. If your venture is shut, extra questions and judgement as to how and why it happened. 

3. If your venture is successful and profitable, they'll ask why you want a job if it's going so well.

I've never received any preference because of being a founder. On the contrary it's made getting good jobs more difficult.

Thankfully I've managed my earnings through my startup, but I feel stuck because I'm not earning as much as I want to, plus I can't work on new things anymore. I would have liked to work on other things but it doesn't seem like I'll be able to get a chance to do that anymore.

Founders, were you able to find a job since covid began?

Product Owner

I am starting up soon. I care about working on meaningful problems, with good people and building the right culture. 

Have been hearing from a lot of folks about culture problems in startups. Seems more of a norm rather than an exception. 

Curious to know why do startup culture degrade? What pitfalls should I avoid to create a healthy culture?

Why do startup culture go bad?

Product Marketing Manager

There are lot of startups and companies who say we dont have hierarchy or we follow open door policy, but internally you see things are way different as projected. What are your views on those things?

Views on companies who say “no hierarchy”

Be it about investors, co-founders, hires, freelancers, family, or yourself

Founders, what will you never share publicly about your startup?

Most startup’s are not founded with great altruistic purpose to elevate human condition. Most startup’s are founded where founders know they can make money or earn status points through little schemes of leveraging their network of investors. 

Most of them know they can earn more income by just raising some money from friends or VCs. Build a small tech tool and burn through money trying to acquire and retain customers. All this while hiring 100s of employees selling false narratives. 

What bugs me the most isn’t the thousands of people getting laid off, salary corrections or bankruptcies, it is the mafiaesque organisation built to “create wealth for some by exploitation of countless others” 

Most startup founders use brute force of content and media coupled with ignorance of people to perpetuate this cycle. 

It’s the virtue signalling and holier than thou attitude of most founders and VCs justifying all their mindless brutality in the name of strategy and growth which destroys aspirations and outcomes for the many. It’s more relevant in India because of large scale ignorance about money and large scale trust on educated individuals with the right college tags! 

If you have seen sopranos, most founders are like Anthony soprano - summarily violent, manipulative and ruthless behaviour primarily driven by selfish greed but juxtaposed with moments of vulnerability and struggle justifying his action with a facade of providing for his family. 

*Replace Anthony soprano with your founder/ceo name* 


1. VSS was playing fast and lose with rbi regulations resulting in stock crash and layoffs 
2. Byju’s systematically destroyed his own company and wealth of his employees just to ensure he retains majority control 
3. Ashneer G and his wife manipulated company books
4. Zerodha founders cheated in chess match or lied about their system failures which lost a lot of capital

PS: I refer to most founders because there are few exceptions who don’t fit into this narrative.

Startup founders are mafia bosses!

Incredibly myopic and pessimistic view. I'd suggest trying to be a founder yourself once before judging them. 
  
 Not every startup needs to elevate human condition, plus you still need money to make that happen. 
  
 Most founders don't actually earn much compared to jobs they could've had in companies. All you see is the flashy idiots like Kunal Shah and Byju. Not the bootstrapper shutting down their 10th project for xyz reasons. Because no one likes talking about their failures, and no one listens to people who fail. Only those who succeed.  
  
 You have a problem with the human condition buddy, not founders. Humans can be real shitty given the right kind of conditions. Everyone's fallible, even you.  
  
 If you think you can be a better founder than some of the names you mentioned, then you're only indulging in holier than thou behaviour, which you allegedly hate about founders.  
  
 I do agree with some of the things you said, but much of it is way off.

Generalist

Consultant

Welcome to Product Managers's Private Community

Someone told me that it is an issue that can be solved by having high agency but it is exactly the thing that is penalized first. You can only affect the locus of your influence but when you need to get work done collaboratively it is mind numbing work.

You need to sell, sell and sell. Not the right ideas always win but the loudest guy who is really chummy with the founders. Most founders can't do any better because it serves their ego. Doing things right means accepting that your throughput of ideas based in gut call is bad for the company. Having a system where meritocratic ideas win while "smart" show-sha people who are all talk and no show are fired straight up.

I have myself witnessed the death of culture when the inner circle does as what they want to, and soon the it turns very toxic for everyone involved. I can tell you that right now I am pretty much sure that 4 people will leave within 1 year, even if they were offered a 100% hike.

High agency means that you can only do the best with the cards that have been dealt to you. But even with high agency you cannot expect to solve big problems that extend beyond your scope of responsibilities.

PM RANT: Launching anything in a big company is an "impossible task"...

I'm seeing so many posts where startup employees are cribbing about things like layoffs, work culture etc etc. Doesn't seem like they have perspective on everything it takes to build a startup. I've built a failed startup myself and have immense respect for founders who are grinding it out there in such difficult recessionary circumstances. 

And then you have so many of the engineers and PMs cribbing about basics without talking about important things like learning growth, building for the future etc. Why such myopia? I work at a big tech and envy the speed at which startups move, the big responsibility everyone gets to handle, the fast career growth. All these things are being cribbed about. They crib about founders wanting more. Their job is to ensure success, not to give lifetime jobs to entitled people. They have more headaches you can imagine. In my small startup I had a million headaches. I can only imagine how hard it must be to run larger ships. Is everyone joining a startup these days looking for a get rich quick scheme?

Why are startup folks so entitled?

If you can’t run a business that lets people have a normal life then you’re the one who thinks they’re entitled to employees. 
 Businesses must take risk, employees don’t. Stop your whining that people won’t support shitty business plans

I am so frustrated by observing how some Indian startup founders have been mistreating employees. This is happening literally in all the startups and corporates.

Many of us invest their precious time and money obtaining degrees, only to become corporate employees.

India won the WC on Saturday night, and since then, I have seen numerous rant posts from people complaining that they missed this moment because they were overworked.

The rate of employee exploitation is alarmingly high, as founders often believe they have alot of options and are driven by their greed for money.

Look at the plight of startups, the top management says they do not have money so they lay off the whole departments without any prior notice. Yet they spend so lavishly on showing investors or on their socials how cool they all are.

We are bloody engineers, not their family bound slaves.
Why do we suffer ? 

I believe it is high time that we establish a union for employees working in the IT industry.
This exploitative culture needs to come to an end.

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