Engineers who care about what is being built as much as how it is being built are not coming here to crib.

Software Developer

Product Manager

- There are good engineers as well as bad engineers 
 - There will be good PMs as well as bad PMs 
  
 Some PMs can be just project managers 
 Some of them might be bad at stakeholder management. Even the tone of communication and how humble they are matters 
  
 SWEs want a lot of concentration. Any meetings would be taken with some hatred.  
  
 A lot of them wouldn't want to keep on repeating/explain/teaching things.  
  
  
 I could be wrong 💁🏻‍♂️

From what I have understood based on replies I have seen in GV, I think it's the lack of empathy shown by PMs. 
  
 I feel SEs have experienced that PMs always care about the metrics and want to move the product forward and it isn't always with best intentions of SEs kept in mind. In the sense, PMs promise timelines and the SEs face the brunt of it and the PMs cannot empathize beyond that

What all pointers SEs want PMs to understand which can help them other than timelines?

Senior Product Manager

Consultant

Pm can blame engineers, but engineers can't blame the pm

PMs get blamed by the entire org bro for the products/ metrics owned, even for stuff that isn’t really our fault, dev/ business / design delays

I'm a PM but I don't like other PMs mostly. They're all full of jargon and esoteric terms, rarely any hands on work, only telling others what to do. 
  
 If you're not getting your hands dirty with code design marketing or business strategy, you're not a real pm for me.

Product Owner

Most PMs I worked with have been decent to good, but a select few are terrible. The common pattern is they act like they are paying my salary, and that they get to make decisions and I am just a pair of hands. Feel like smacking them.

Depends on the quality of PMs. Folks that I have worked with are pure crap. 
  
 Hate or not, it's just lack of respect. PMs haven't earned it imo. 
  
 They are too immature, unfit to build roadmaps. Too young imo. Can't be called product managers.

Data engineer

Genuinely curious what is it that you think we do. In real life, I have had a great time with most engineers I have worked with.   I know there's going to be a lot of trolling but looking for some ...

Genuinely curious what is it that you think we do. In real life, I have had a great time with most engineers I have worked with. 

I know there's going to be a lot of trolling but looking for some meaningful answers to improve my rapport with tech folks.

Why do SWEs on GV hate PMs so much?

Why do SWEs on GV hate PMs so much?- Grapevine

Welcome to Product Managers's Private Community

Lately I am seeing a lot more people talk about the fact that being a PM is a sub optimal strategy for an eventful career in Tech. However, let me remind you that people in tech tend to be predominantly engineers and they like the people skills needed to be good at making Products for actual humans.

I have personally witnessed PMs be great at talking to various teams in Engg, Design, Analystics and Operations. They are so good at talking that they forget that they actually need to work and not just speak all the time. I feel that PMs are all talk but now work and just chill around the foosball table all day. Once in a while they will go and flirt with that new chick that joined their team. In case the joke wasn't clear, "PMs are the cesspool of Tech". 😂

We need PMs more than you think...

Welcome to Software Engineers's Private Community

1. They are the most overpaid people in India.
2. They have no work life balance and they don't even know what it means.
3. They think they are the best at everything, but they can't do anything right.
4. They are always complaining about their job and how much they hate it.
5. They are never satisfied with their salary or benefits package.
6. They are always looking for new jobs because they think they deserve better than what they currently have.

Would you like to add anything else here?

Software Engineers as seen by a Product Manager...

PM as seen by Engineers: 
 1. Doesn't do anything other than throwing random jargons 
 2. Can't explain what they do other than say how they are not Program manager or something else

Software Engineer

Welcome to Indian Startups's Private Community

I am honestly just furious at the pay difference between the salary of an sde and a pm. Both work just as hard.

Why are project managers paid less?

Solution Architect

It’s clear that companies won’t need engineers 10 years from now. 

They’ll just need people who know what to make. Who to sell to. How to sell to. At what price. 

This will be the great commoditization of Software development

Take it or leave it.

[Hot Take] AI will make SWEs redundant, PMs and Marketers will become the most important job

This is an L take for someone who works at Google
It is supremely obvious that SWEs are about to enter the golden era of Software Engineering. We are easily foreseeing 2x-2.5x improvement in developer productivity rate. You should go touch some grass or else you will end up becoming PM guru who shills substandard-courses to poor kids.

Product Marketing Manager

PM of 5 years. Same place the whole time. We have a new Engineering Manager. 

They started 2 months ago and at first they seemed like they were very happy to learn our process and products. Then they soon started to manipulate the Engineering team which was very cooperative earlier.

It’s incredibly demotivating. We are a small startup, and the culture isn’t great but seriously no need to be so dismissive of other people’s efforts and feelings. They are just fucking rude. No other word for it really. The problem is that they do NOT get the product side of things so you can’t explain anything to them. They start to physically roll their eyes when you go anymore product than the word “PRD”.

I have never had to deal with someone like this and it’s really stressing me out as they are involved in effectively every project I work on. Advice that isn’t “quit” will be appreciated.

I should also clarify that when I say “product limitations” I really mean how much effort goes into getting things right, the delays are shearing the roadmap apart.

why do Software Engineers act so rude? How to solve this in my team?

As a Product Manager, why do Software Engineers act so rude?

Would you rather be an Engineer learning how to Product or a Product Manager learning how to Engineer?

Answer is obvious mate. And it's already in motion. 
 Everyone knows current product management breed is a messed up fraudulent bunch. They will run into poverty if they don't change ways🙂

Founding Engineer

Same as title.
As a product manager, what to do when your EM is not supportive and passes the buck to you always, doesn't accept mistakes, instead waits for the chance to blame you instead.
You can't even escalate, because of course you have only one EM. Of course, your team's EM will not change.

How to cope with bad EM?

Engineers saying pms shouldn't exist should for once get what they want. Most engineers I know get anxious enough to take leaves once a customer shouts at them lol

Pms shouldn't exist folks should get what they want

Computer Operator

Please post interview questions for a TPM role that either you were asked as an interviewee or you ask as an interviewer.

Technical Product Manager Interview Questions

Just want to know how much technical is the PM's on GV. PM's need not code but are you a technically comfortable prod man if you haven't transitioned from comp sci / engg background.

PM's which end of spectrum do you fall into?

Associate Product Manager

Welcome to Business Roles's Private Community

As a PM I would say it is to delivery high quality product in less time. 🕰️

What is the biggest problem you face in your daily job? Please mention your role as well.

Do you think pure product managers with no technical background add value to your company? Aren't experienced project managers with penchant for business more suitable for this role?

Why do SWEs on GV hate PMs so much?

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