PM of 5 years. Same place the whole time. We have a new Engineering Manager.
They started 2 months ago and at first they seemed like they were very happy to learn our process and products. Then they soon started to manipulate the Engineering team which was very cooperative earlier.
It’s incredibly demotivating. We are a small startup, and the culture isn’t great but seriously no need to be so dismissive of other people’s efforts and feelings. They are just fucking rude. No other word for it really. The problem is that they do NOT get the product side of things so you can’t explain anything to them. They start to physically roll their eyes when you go anymore product than the word “PRD”.
I have never had to deal with someone like this and it’s really stressing me out as they are involved in effectively every project I work on. Advice that isn’t “quit” will be appreciated.
I should also clarify that when I say “product limitations” I really mean how much effort goes into getting things right, the delays are shearing the roadmap apart.
why do Software Engineers act so rude? How to solve this in my team?
Maybe have a talk with the leadership regarding this?
@Samayondo I did and they are supporting the EM on this stating that it is a non-issue.
Ofcourse they will. Product managers usually from what I have seen in Industry have 0 business sense and 0 technical sense. They are totally useless.
Any analysis or even the crap PRD they build will lack reality checks. Ideas and justifications will be more like a prayer rather than based on any analysis and most importantly they will be based on movie fantasies.
You want people to care for your feelings? Cute!
Maybe:
Product manager is a very useless title. You are not the leaders of an org. You are rather the most incapable ones in it. My advice is, before dismissing that atleast try to understand why. Maybe then u will add a bit more value than now. Till then u r a nobody and u can expect sympathy but not respect from a tech or a business guy.
Good luck!
Documentation is key. Keep the leadership in loop, reduce the scope of the projects by 15-20% and use that time to document everything. Keep the EM in loop on these documents and keep the leadership also in on this. Proactively communicate delays to the leadership.
But be prepared to get the short end of the stick. PMing in India is highly under appreciated. The leadership has to intervene in such a scenario and all you can do is gather the data points and make a good case for yourself and the initiatives you are working on.
Wish you all the best for it. Hang in there, will come a time when PMs will garner equal or more respect than their EM counterparts, just like in the valley. Till then brace for a bumpy ride. Also if you want to connect on specifics of your problem, feel free to dm.
@BahadurBilla I will try your advice out. i am very non confrontational and this is hard on me.
Bad advice.
If u need to command respect you just need to deserve it.
God.
Go build a real product or real business first. Then come back and try to be Product Manager. Till then u r a nobody. And you will continue to beg for leadership to protect you. 🤦
Accept it. You were just a weakling let into tech industry but has no place in it. Earn it first
Your story lol sketching the EM as the villain while you might be the one doing all this. The reason Software Engineers are seen as rude is because they don't best around the bush and feed the deluulu people in corporate. Tough luck they will still have the job if they quit or get laid off, we are getting paid for our problem solving skills(actual problem solving not jargon English problems).
Everyone is smart enough to respect where money flows
I doubt their resentment is something that came up suddenly
Maybe new Eng Guy is trying to align resources after evaluating that most time spent by Engs is pointing to no revenue
I work under a manager/mentor who extremely rude to PM and CSMs in general
I have never met a more focused person than him ever
Have spent enough time under management to see most Client facing guys are not focused enough to say no to random requests by Client
MBA grads wanna maintain the relationship with clients rather build a product that recieves widespread adoption
Product Building and Eng is hard, and the ones who nail them move to USA and print stocks
Most Blr based product companies are wrapper around Service Based product because we would rather waste everyone's time/money rather pointing them to narrow objective of a product layer and making life easier
Tbf PMs and Client Huggers have a higher attrition than engs and focus on "Relationships" rather than Value
We understand making deals is hard
But working on creating Money-Minters is the best thing you can do ever. Great products make life easy for clients ,even if clients are not focused its your responsibility to fight and show them value
A little context:
I'm coming out a meeting with a major desi Bank. Have been having this meet for weeks where Business guys throw around words and toss emails with nothing to show for
Keep in mind all these morons have big linkedIn profiles that others jerk off to
I can't contribute much since my manager didn't join till today
But today my manager took control of the meeting and opened up an excel asking what I the to-do list and who is the stakeholder
All of those guys just ran for their lives.... we had more clarity today than rest of the 2 months
BottomLine
Please focus on where the money is flowing and let that form your direction
A rude focused guy is much above a distracted tree hugger
Damn. That's one detailed explanation. Will totally agree on this.
Damn. That's one detailed explanation. Will totally agree on this.
You need to speak up, i) Directly to them first ii) To the leadership than simply taking their shit. From my experience, unless you speak up with authority and point out wrong behaviours, people take you and your work for granted
@GrubbyRoom95 Yeah that is what i will try to do here now. Do you have any advice?
Do you think pure product managers with no technical background add value to your company? Aren't experienced project managers with penchant for business more suitable for this role?
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