Welcome to Indian Startups's Private Community

Undervalued learnings, useless for folks who are arm-chair PMs

Product Manager

Undervalued learnings, useless for folks who are arm-chair PMs- Grapevine

Welcome to Product Managers's Private Community

Sharing some reflections on this:

1. Product is not a function with a large hierarchy / multiple levels in the ladder. Managerial responsibility comes in very late in the product career and the spans are typically small (relative to other functions like engineering, sales, operations). This also means a steeper funnel to the top and only a handful VP Product roles in the industry.

2. Product is centered around technology and digital consumer trends, both of which are fast changing. This requires constant unlearning and relearning. But more critically, this also means that previous knowledge/experience hits a plateau on marginal value beyond a basic threshold (where you have developed some essential product semse and skills).

3. Product managers are also much higher-paid vs other functional peers, at comparable years of experience. This means that a PM gets to a very high salary (say, 1+ crore) by the age of 40 (15-20y into their career). Tech functions in non-tech companies (like FMCG, banking) cannot offer that kind of pay, meaning salary growth beyond a point is limited to tech-first companies / limiting addressable market for lateral moves.

All of these considererd, how should PMs think about the longevity of their careers? Unlike traditional roles, this does not seem like a "retire at 60" job. What would be the realistic age one should plan for, at which career growth and salary growth will stagnate? What are ways in which a 80%ile PM can extend their career (eg: also taking up engineering management or P&L responsibility or growth function etc., to increase scope)?

PS: this post is not for the top 5-10% PMs. They will always find roles at VP level etc, this is for the 50-90%ile bucket of PM talent.

Longevity of a product career

Will commend you on a very well written and well articulated post. 
  
 Options for the future will be apparent at ~40.  Most peak roles will be achieved between 45-50. 
  
 Possible exits: 
  
 1. Running Category roles at companies which have a broad canvas, multiple product categories. 
 2. Deputing for and eventually running a P&L or a LoB. 
 3. Sales or more critically Customer Success.  Don't shy away from revenue responsibilities. 
  
 Engineering is a sharp left turn imo.  It's not an overlapping skillset at best and don't see how that is part of a PMs likely roadmap.

Sales Manager

Investor

Has anyone here joined GrowthX, how has your journey been? Would you recommend it?

GrowthX Feedback

Data Analyst

Is nextleap pm program worth it?. could you all suggest best pm courses currently available?

Thanks in advance

Nextleap pm program

Software Developer

Drop some underrated PM advice that no one takes seriously.

Im a Product Manager 1yoe in a SaaS startup.
I had a good experience in the first year. I got to build a product 0-1, competitor analysis, work on creating prioritization frameworks, UAT, content marketing, wireframing.

However, since January the compamy started their stabilization phase, and PM's are now taking care of Sales and lead generation(Content, Ads etc.). The nail in the coffin is we are getting dragged to follow up renewals( Customer Success) 🤢

Im currently motivated to building something new, and it feels like we are being dragged into everything as the company does not want to hire. With no pay hike or any adfitional benefit.

Please advice. Should I look for a new job?

Need advice

What are the unique problems that you faced working as a PM in a startup at various stages vs the ones in corporate?

Problems faced by a PM in a startup

Have heard a lot of stories other way round. Want to see if this perspective exists at all or not.

Any developers here who realized the importance/value/contribution of PMs? If yes, how so?

Would be great if you can share somethings that you've learnt it the hard way especially on topics like stakeholder management (dealing with engineering/ execs/ founders/ P&L team), learning/ upskilling, switching internally/ externally, perfection vs hacky stuff

PMs with 10+ YOE of experience, what are some lessons that you want to share with folks who've just started out

This still counts as one of the most stupid post in my LinkedIn feed from a PM

Wdy think about this take on PM careers by amul.exe? Is future this grim?

Met a PM from IIT / IIM with 4 years of experience. He is working at a  well know soonicorn at a salary of 17  lakhs per year . He used to draw 30 lakhs per year in his last role before we was laid off . Interesting Times ahead

PM Salaries Have Crashed.

A minute of silence to all the grapevine polls where salary expectations are so high 😁

Growth Manager

Product Owner

What do you think about the product management courses in the market? 

Every PM certification I see, it's creating robots, making learners adapt to similar way of speaking, same jargons, same processes. 
Has the hype done more good than bad?

PM Courses are not Worth it?

Coming from a SPM.
Lifecycle of most PMs:
1. Become a PM
2. Keep posting same trite content on LinkedIn
3. Then register yourself as a coach on some PM community.
Nothing against them but frankly none of them ever post a content or article on what features they have launched or worked upon.
Forget any launch,they won't even share the domain learning.Most of the time it will be the copy pasted content from Marty Cagan and Shreyas Doshi

Too much bakar from PMs

Someone told me that it is an issue that can be solved by having high agency but it is exactly the thing that is penalized first. You can only affect the locus of your influence but when you need to get work done collaboratively it is mind numbing work.

You need to sell, sell and sell. Not the right ideas always win but the loudest guy who is really chummy with the founders. Most founders can't do any better because it serves their ego. Doing things right means accepting that your throughput of ideas based in gut call is bad for the company. Having a system where meritocratic ideas win while "smart" show-sha people who are all talk and no show are fired straight up.

I have myself witnessed the death of culture when the inner circle does as what they want to, and soon the it turns very toxic for everyone involved. I can tell you that right now I am pretty much sure that 4 people will leave within 1 year, even if they were offered a 100% hike.

High agency means that you can only do the best with the cards that have been dealt to you. But even with high agency you cannot expect to solve big problems that extend beyond your scope of responsibilities.

PM RANT: Launching anything in a big company is an "impossible task"...

I am reading very often that the craze around product management is too much and this career is not worth the hype. Adding on to that it has huge supply of PMs and many of PMs are underpaid. Is it true?

Is product management as career reallyworth the hype?

Intern

https://sachinrekhi.com/3-types-of-product-managers-builders-tuners-innovators

Kind of agree with this take on types of PM

1. High pressure on timelines- business and top management shits on you if you don’t deliver on time
2. No power to control the outcome- engineers don’t listen to you neither does the design or analytics team, you end up begging for resources
3. Too much politics- business or a senior PM can steal your bandwidth anytime
4. Lack of recognition- if it succeeds business did it, if it fails it is product teams fault (engg never gets blamed for shit)

I believe Product Management is a really toxic role

Has anyone here purchased the Managing your PM Career course? Looking for reviews

Undervalued learnings, useless for folks who are arm-chair PMs

Discover More

Product Managers on

by Coy Nadeen

Swiggy

Longevity of a product career

Misc on

by Isaiah Taye

Stealth

GrowthX Feedback

Product Managers on

by Jordon Gabriel

TCS

Nextleap pm program

Product Managers on

by Blair Lee

Stealth

Drop some underrated PM advice that no one takes seriously.

Product Managers on

by Anise Nadeen

Startup

Need advice

Product Managers on

by Kendall Denver

Google

Problems faced by a PM in a startup

Product Managers on

by Kendall Carmden

Gojek

Any developers here who realized the importance/value/contribution of PMs? If yes, how so?

Product Managers on

by Matilda Nadeen

Flipkart

PMs with 10+ YOE of experience, what are some lessons that you want to share with folks who've just started out

Product Managers on

by Anise Carmden

Stealth

This still counts as one of the most stupid post in my LinkedIn feed from a PM

Product Managers on

by Jordon Taye

Juspay

Wdy think about this take on PM careers by amul.exe? Is future this grim?

Product Managers on

by Jordon Lee

Google

PM Salaries Have Crashed.

Product Managers on

by Jordon Lee

Stealth

PM Courses are not Worth it?

Product Managers on

by Kendall Lee

Stealth

Too much bakar from PMs

Product Managers on

by Karilyn Lee

Gojek

PM RANT: Launching anything in a big company is an "impossible task"...

Product Managers on

by Karilyn Carmden

Cardekho

Is product management as career reallyworth the hype?

Product Managers on

by Jordon Hyrum

PhonePe

Kind of agree with this take on types of PM

Product Managers on

by Kalan Denver

DealShare

I believe Product Management is a really toxic role

Product Managers on

by Anise Gabriel

Juspay

Shreyas Doshi PM course