It only exists on paper and prayers. Only actual type of PMs are the most useless moochers of any org.🙏🏻

Data engineer

https://sachinrekhi.com/3typesofproductmanagersbuilderstunersinnovators

Welcome to Product Managers's Private Community

https://sachinrekhi.com/3-types-of-product-managers-builders-tuners-innovators

Kind of agree with this take on types of PM

Software Developer

Kind of agree with this take on types of PM- Grapevine

I am reading very often that the craze around product management is too much and this career is not worth the hype. Adding on to that it has huge supply of PMs and many of PMs are underpaid. Is it true?

Is product management as career reallyworth the hype?

Intern

Engineers saying pms shouldn't exist should for once get what they want. Most engineers I know get anxious enough to take leaves once a customer shouts at them lol

Pms shouldn't exist folks should get what they want

Computer Operator

Say you are a spectator and this seems like the next best thing to get into.. is that the right thought? 
And if you’re a non tech bachelors with an mba degree from tier two college, Is it possible to break in product management?
And if you’re seriously considering product still, are the fellowship programs, the boot camps and everything else advertised worth spending money?
Looking for answers, personal journeys and anything that can help!

How to get into product management ?

Business Development Manager

Wdy think about this take on PM careers by amul.exe? Is future this grim?

Product Manager

1. High pressure on timelines- business and top management shits on you if you don’t deliver on time
2. No power to control the outcome- engineers don’t listen to you neither does the design or analytics team, you end up begging for resources
3. Too much politics- business or a senior PM can steal your bandwidth anytime
4. Lack of recognition- if it succeeds business did it, if it fails it is product teams fault (engg never gets blamed for shit)

I believe Product Management is a really toxic role

Welcome to Software Engineers's Private Community

1. They are the most overpaid people in India.
2. They have no work life balance and they don't even know what it means.
3. They think they are the best at everything, but they can't do anything right.
4. They are always complaining about their job and how much they hate it.
5. They are never satisfied with their salary or benefits package.
6. They are always looking for new jobs because they think they deserve better than what they currently have.

Would you like to add anything else here?

Software Engineers as seen by a Product Manager...

PM as seen by Engineers: 
 1. Doesn't do anything other than throwing random jargons 
 2. Can't explain what they do other than say how they are not Program manager or something else

Software Engineer

Welcome to Office Gossip's Private Community

Note - I am a product manager too

4 out of 5 product managers will act all high and mighty of themselves, bragging their way as if they run everything going on in the company, flaunting their business degrees and being utterly disrespectful towards their team( dev design qa name it), 

Recently started going to office so the attitude I am seeing is very transparent and more visible (more with the higher experience folks)

It makes me wanna leave this hyper inflated role, thinking of I will end up like them scares me, and you have to do is speak out jargons in meetings day in day out and have a English accent of Shashi Tharoor.

Recently my manager told that this is a role where you have to very representable or very visible and act in floor as if you are the busiest person on earth and I seriously some PMs in company doing that, they walk so fast in floor as if they will fall off or would be better to have 4 legs.

I am done with this product management shit

Its been a few good years of product roles being adopted in Indian companies big & small, 
Yet they remain the most random wild cards.

From skewness towards just tools (SQL, Clevertap, Jira etc) to absolute monstrosity in 3 years exp + MBA + tech background for an APM role 🤡

Latest trend is domain experience. N years in Retail, Erp, Cloud etc. 

Golden days of free entry and learning are over. 

Let’s see how things go if the role even survives in its current form(s).

Evolution of the product role

Welcome to Indian Startups's Private Community

I'm a product manager myself and I've been noticing this mentality.

Founders of pre-PMF stage companies, having raised tons of money in the bull market in a last couple of years, have hired tons of resources with no clarity and vision whatsoever.

They continue to ignore they're building a product nobody wants. They barely talk to users. On top of it, they hire Product Managers thinking it's a silver bullet and will solve PMF issues.

It's founders responsibility to figure out PMF and not anybody's else. You need to get in the weeds and not throw money at problems.

It just doesn't end there. These companies with average talent pool and the kind of culture that sets it top-down because of these average founders, expect PMs to own everything and fix everything. Everybody from Tech to Marketing shrugs off from the responsibility expect PMs to tell what needs to be done. This chutiya mindset of 'sit and wait' until a PM tells let breeds more inefficiency as output becomes slower as nobody is incentivised to think and take decisions. Also, everybody enjoys doing what are being told because no consequences if things blow up.

Hire competent people across functions and get involved in product building. It's already too late to fix it if this resonates with you.

PM roles have made startups with average talent pool more inefficient

Unfortunately this is the reality in most companies in the world. It's not just pre-PMF startups.  
  
 That's just how things are in corporate. 
  
 I was lucky to be working in a pre-PMF startup where engineers took more responsibility. And they themselves planned out the tech debt and optimised APIs/queries, etc.  
  
 And I know I'm not gonna find such set of engineers ever again.  
  
 Best thing to do is to make peace with it and do whatever you can to make the best product 😀

So I've met many PMs in my career. Most have been sub par, poor performers, can't even do IC work. The ones who can do IC work, can't think. The IC work is generally project management not product. They need someone to tell them directions

So here's a few things. The best PMs I've met, are good engineers. Yes. These are the same folks who come for product management conferences and are respected. 
Of course not all engineers are good at product.
The role of product came up with manufacturing first when you had product designers who worked with engineers and had a good understanding of both engineering limitations and user understanding. 

Some of the PMs I have met don't even talk to users. The reason i am seeing an issue in PMs in India is the increase in demand in the role, and a lack of supply.

There is a product engineer role, I met a few folks who are doing that, they were amazing. Knew technology, users, product and super passionate.

I'm not saying this is a hard and fast rule, I'm sure there are folks who have a natural inclination, so if you're an exception, understand that. Don't get offended by the statement

What PMs lack in India

Founder’s Office

Would you rather be an Engineer learning how to Product or a Product Manager learning how to Engineer?

Answer is obvious mate. And it's already in motion. 
 Everyone knows current product management breed is a messed up fraudulent bunch. They will run into poverty if they don't change ways🙂

Founding Engineer

Im a Product Manager 1yoe in a SaaS startup.
I had a good experience in the first year. I got to build a product 0-1, competitor analysis, work on creating prioritization frameworks, UAT, content marketing, wireframing.

However, since January the compamy started their stabilization phase, and PM's are now taking care of Sales and lead generation(Content, Ads etc.). The nail in the coffin is we are getting dragged to follow up renewals( Customer Success) 🤢

Im currently motivated to building something new, and it feels like we are being dragged into everything as the company does not want to hire. With no pay hike or any adfitional benefit.

Please advice. Should I look for a new job?

Need advice

Had a chat with a senior PM today on the need of the PM function with Ai getting smarter. 

Engineers build, designers design, data people analyse things, and a business person has the mind to make money by leveraging the team. When a point arrives where Ai does all the IC part of Engineering, Design and Data, there won't be a requirement of PM function at all! 

Creativity, Empathy, Product thinking, all these skills will be owned by Engineers, Designers, Data  and Business leaders. These skills like "product sense" are something that won't hold the fort much longer because eventually all good engineers, designers and data people will have to develop the customer empathy and product sense to prompt the Ai and do their individual job better.


IMHO it is a high time that all PMs work to strengthen at least one hard skill to keep themselves employable. 


While I am writing this post, unfortunately I am also the one who is seeking a PM role right now. 

Any suggestions or thoughts you have on which hard skill to master and how to remain employable?

PM function is 💀. Change my mind.

What is with the impatience and not wanting to listen to people under you and assert unnecessary dominance?

Non Tech PMs should have patience and understanding or not be in the role

PM of 5 years. Same place the whole time. We have a new Engineering Manager. 

They started 2 months ago and at first they seemed like they were very happy to learn our process and products. Then they soon started to manipulate the Engineering team which was very cooperative earlier.

It’s incredibly demotivating. We are a small startup, and the culture isn’t great but seriously no need to be so dismissive of other people’s efforts and feelings. They are just fucking rude. No other word for it really. The problem is that they do NOT get the product side of things so you can’t explain anything to them. They start to physically roll their eyes when you go anymore product than the word “PRD”.

I have never had to deal with someone like this and it’s really stressing me out as they are involved in effectively every project I work on. Advice that isn’t “quit” will be appreciated.

I should also clarify that when I say “product limitations” I really mean how much effort goes into getting things right, the delays are shearing the roadmap apart.

why do Software Engineers act so rude? How to solve this in my team?

As a Product Manager, why do Software Engineers act so rude?

No, I'm not talking about the job market. That's dog shit -- barely any vacancies, and engineers earn 25%ish more. 

However, in a world with 10x better Co-Pilots and other GenAI tools, problem identification is going to be every employee's moat. 'Tech-Enabled' Business PMs will have the brightest futures. There's already a rise in PM-led vs Eng-led startups. This will become clearer 5-10 years down the line.

Also, supply-demand is not as skewed as you think. Everyone thinks this job is easy, and hence, a bunch of folks are aspiring PMs on LinkedIn. I believe quality PMs are still rare (personally have a long way to go).

Would love to hear more. I'm young in my career and maybe naive but this is what I feel.

Unpopular Opinion: It's a great time to be a PM

It takes time to understand and master any domain. You have to do something substantial. Where has the humility gone? Does calling yourself Leader increases chances of getting jobs? It’s mind boggling
And shallow.

Kind of agree with this take on types of PM

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