Because marketers don’t care about the realities of product making and ‘demand’ features. 

They also add very little value in comparison

Looks like you've been living under a rock.

Growth Manager

Product Marketing Manager

because they hype up things in tech. Like crypto, web3 , every tech shit is future without understanding the nuances.

Software Engineer

Heh! Been a career sales professional. The passion with which engg presents the finished product is not reciprocated by the marketing guys. For them the product is to be sold.  Another - Marketing guy knows the market pulse, Engg guy works on an idea which is a couple of months old if not years. Yet another - engg are mad perfectionists, maarketers are Monetary driven rascals ,💥

Founder

if only they put in some effort to understand atleast the surface level knowledge of the product works and is made. the marketing executive that has good rapport with the tech team are the best.

Have been an engineer and a marketer, it’s obvious for enggs to hate them, most of the marketers don’t try to learn basic technicalities of prod they’re selling, they ask every simple doubt to enggs even after spending good amount of time selling it.

Software Developer

Welcome to Software Engineers's Private Community

Why do engineers hate marketers so much?

Digital Marketing Manager

Why do engineers hate marketers so much?- Grapevine

There has been a huge influx of posts dissing roles like Product, Marketing, HR etc. by Techies.

Every other post, or comment is made by them undermining the value of other depts and these cuties think business runs just by their sub-par code.

I understand that their delusion stems from the fact they get paid huge salaries by loss making companies. Which is bound to crash sooner or later. 

Rant over.

Why are Techies so delusional?

Interesting POV. 
  
 Nassim Nicholas Taleb mentions an interesting advice. If you don’t know what to do, follow what the smartest people in your generation are doing. 
  
 These are almost exclusively fulfilling and financially attractive opportunities 
  
 According to him, in the 1990s Lebanon, the smartest kids in undergrad went and became Economists. In the 2010s, the smartest kids became Software Engineers. 
  
 Perhaps, their ego does not stem from the money but from competence.  
  
 However, true charisma is merging that competence with warmth. And for that, you must eliminate the ego.

Product Manager

Welcome to Office Gossip's Private Community

I’m really curious to know what exactly the Marketing Team does cause in the previous two organisations that I worked at , The Marketing Dept was kinda meh. So I wanted to know if it’s the case everywhere or does an actual good Marketing Team exist as the ones I’ve interacted with their lead generation and marketing was trash.

Do Marketing Teams Actually Do Anything ?

Assistant Manager

Welcome to Business Roles's Private Community

Why is it that the salaries for folks working in digital/ performance marketing/ growth roles way lower than tech/product roles? In most startups the mktg team is lean and impact per employee is high. Yet there is a huge discrepancy in the salaries.
Can someone share their thoughts on this ?
(Ps: not talking about the smo/seo people you see on LinkedIn)

Salary for marketing/growth roles

Welcome to Indian Startups's Private Community

If absolutely all software engineers obsess over business metrics rather than technology it would be net-net great outcome for the ecosystem as well for the individual economically, socially.

I find it childish when a CTO/Architect/Principal engineer obsess over code & infra architecture, low level/high level design, scalability.

Outcome:
---
I want engineers at all seniority levels and all disciplines must only care about biz metrics. Product management should cease to exist. 

Everything tech will fall into place. 

If you were the product manager of the "bangalore", how would you approach this?

One approach i thought -
---
To get into Bangalore tech ecosystem you must need a certification from a institution (For ex: Tech School), absolutely mandatory from this school irrespective of your college background. 

This tech school will allow everyone to enter, online lectures, teach customer empathy, research, industry standard tech, product management, design. Aim is to set correct mindset for growth and first principle thinking. 

This will make college background irrelevant.

What can we do to make software engineers obsess over business metrics rather than tech

1. They are the most overpaid people in India.
2. They have no work life balance and they don't even know what it means.
3. They think they are the best at everything, but they can't do anything right.
4. They are always complaining about their job and how much they hate it.
5. They are never satisfied with their salary or benefits package.
6. They are always looking for new jobs because they think they deserve better than what they currently have.

Would you like to add anything else here?

Software Engineers as seen by a Product Manager...

PM as seen by Engineers: 
 1. Doesn't do anything other than throwing random jargons 
 2. Can't explain what they do other than say how they are not Program manager or something else

Welcome to Product Managers's Private Community

Would you rather be an Engineer learning how to Product or a Product Manager learning how to Engineer?

Answer is obvious mate. And it's already in motion. 
 Everyone knows current product management breed is a messed up fraudulent bunch. They will run into poverty if they don't change ways🙂

Founding Engineer

Let's face it. In some company (read mine) they are the gatekeepers of all things roadmap, obviousness, communication between engineers and business. While in some companies they are nothing but a left over thought acting no more than a typical Program Manager (Google and how Engineers have more say and power in roadmaps).

What are your thoughts on your PM?

Ask Engineers: Thoughts on Product Managers?

Tech Lead

Hope this post reaches everyone well. I'm a final year engineering undergrad student from a core branch in a Tier 2 college. I'll cut to the chase - I hate my degree and want to switch over to DIgital Marketing. I recently completed a two month digital marketing internship in an arm of a retail brand. This was to test the waters; to see if I actually like Digital Marketing or just the idea of it. Turns out, it's pretty fun. While the tasks were mundane, I handled basic stuff like on-page SEO tactics, LOTS of content writing and a market analysis of our competitors. I wanted to also venture into other domains (like Performance Marketing and Brand Management), but I wasn't given the chance to do so.

Coming to the topic, what do I do from here? Look up case studies? A remote intership (which I'm unsure if I can handle with college)? And what exactly does 'build a portfolio' entail? And yes, I know the market is in the doldrums right now. This might be the worst time to embark on a career in Marketing, but I need to bet on myself now.

I've started applying for internships (January-July, leads appreciated!), and need guidance from someone elder than me on how to navigate the situation I'm in. Apologies for any errors.

TLDR: Engineering student hates his degree (nothing new), loves Digital Marketing, needs guidance from someone senior to figure out a path towards an alternate career.

Switching over to a career in Digital Marketing.

1. High pressure on timelines- business and top management shits on you if you don’t deliver on time
2. No power to control the outcome- engineers don’t listen to you neither does the design or analytics team, you end up begging for resources
3. Too much politics- business or a senior PM can steal your bandwidth anytime
4. Lack of recognition- if it succeeds business did it, if it fails it is product teams fault (engg never gets blamed for shit)

I believe Product Management is a really toxic role

Genuinely curious what is it that you think we do. In real life, I have had a great time with most engineers I have worked with. 

I know there's going to be a lot of trolling but looking for some meaningful answers to improve my rapport with tech folks.

Why do SWEs on GV hate PMs so much?

Question to all the software engineers. 

What are some traits of the best PMs you have worked with - could be a behavioural aspect / work ethic / knowledge of the domain etc.

Engineers' views on Product Managers

Consultant, Investment Banking went from sought after careers to fads post 2008 crisis when the world realized that these folks are crooks due to their role in propogating the Great Financial Crisis.

Given the backlash tech companies has been getting and global layoffs, will Product Manager also become a passing fad?

Seeing lot of anti Product Manager sentiment on this app off late. Was Product Management also a fad?

Someone here said engineers can become PM but PM can't become engineers. It can't be more correct than this. But reality is, it sounds goods only in theory.  
  
  I asked this same question to my director, why have you hired us when engineers clearly know more about products than us and are capable?  His answered that before the organisation formally created a team of product managers, it was only engineers that were handling product for decades. But that resulted into substandard products being developed, chaotic product release and consistent drop in revenue. The reason being engineers became backlog managers and engineers beging engineers, never focused on business value. Instead, they focused on technical aspect heavily. Engineers never bothered to check if what they were developing will actually sell in the market or not.  
  
 And mind you, this was a product that all of us use in daily lives. The numbers of users in India alone would be millions. So to summarise, yes, engineers can become PMs but generally they stay loyal to their pedigree of BE/B.Tech and become very shitty PMs. They like to have more technical conversations than strategic discussions and hate things that are not quantifiable, subjective. And business facing people here in forum would know, things are always not quantifiable in business planning, market outlook. It is based on assumptions.  
  
 An excellent PM would be someone who is an engineer but knows how to focus on business value of the product, make it customer oriented etc. I had the pleasure of working of one such PM in my last stint and he was truly outstanding. CEO knew him personally and this is in an organization with thousands of employees

Program Manager

I am an engineer, what I enjoy is solving technically challenging problems. I don't really want to spend my time bothering with non-code solutions to your business problem, and I don't care how much money my code makes you. Just have a tech lead give me a challenging tech problem to solve or build for(WITH the necessary requirements) and I'll get it done. Simple. 


Personally I'm saddened to see how chasing impact has taken over all good tech companies, and how you basically HAVE to create value and take ownership in other ways if you want to be SDE-3 or higher. I would rather be a more technically competent, deliverer SDE (think someone who's extremely good at being an SDE-1). Climbing the SDE ladder is boring.

Any other engineers find it boring and frustrating to chase impact?

To be fair, companies are paying you to earn money, not solve tech 
  
 You have to find things to simplify and innovate in that impact only

I have noticed that the best people from my college got into FAANGMULA companies and ultimately trashed their mind while making great money. Their tech development has literally grown slower than living in a buddhist monastery. Their stunted learning is a strict reminder of how people get trashed into bad engineers with good money. Ultimately you can't even switch companies because no one will hire you at your ZIRP salary while you can't even be 20% of your CTC in terms of productivity.

Do you also hate how FAANG transforms smart people into trash engineers?

I hate working 9 to 5. I simply hate it. I loathe it. I worked so hard all my effing life to get here and I hate it. I learnt DP and what not. It’s been 1.5 years since I started working full time as a software engineer and it just keeps getting worse. 
I make upwards of 15 lpa.
It’s not that I have a bad work environment, it’s great. It’s just that I feel absolutely rotten working a 9 to 5 as a software engineer.

Ideally, I would like to own a small business of my own. Despite watching hours of content on how to do that, I haven’t been able to come up with anything that seems like it’s gonna work, you know…

Thinking of doing an MBA but that’s BS too, right?

It feels like very soon I’m just gonna quit and be broke. 🤷🏼‍♀️
It feels like my life is over at 23. Kill me now.

My question to you is first, am I alone?,  second, can I help you in your business in any possible way?, third, should I do an MBA?

What do I do with my life?

PM of 5 years. Same place the whole time. We have a new Engineering Manager. 

They started 2 months ago and at first they seemed like they were very happy to learn our process and products. Then they soon started to manipulate the Engineering team which was very cooperative earlier.

It’s incredibly demotivating. We are a small startup, and the culture isn’t great but seriously no need to be so dismissive of other people’s efforts and feelings. They are just fucking rude. No other word for it really. The problem is that they do NOT get the product side of things so you can’t explain anything to them. They start to physically roll their eyes when you go anymore product than the word “PRD”.

I have never had to deal with someone like this and it’s really stressing me out as they are involved in effectively every project I work on. Advice that isn’t “quit” will be appreciated.

I should also clarify that when I say “product limitations” I really mean how much effort goes into getting things right, the delays are shearing the roadmap apart.

why do Software Engineers act so rude? How to solve this in my team?

As a Product Manager, why do Software Engineers act so rude?

its advertised as minj CEO role but what is the reality?

Why do engineers hate marketers so much?

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