Are high expectations in such a market valid (even accounting for cream deserves takes)
There’s this chap on GV who posted that they haven’t received any calls for the past 3 months. Has 2.5 years experience with a current ctc around 15L. We spoke to them only to realise their expectations are 32L (26 fixed and 6 in esops) In a market flooded with resumes due to unfortunate situations, is it fair to have such an expectation and at the same time, call out on GV that they haven’t been getting calls for an interview?
26 fixed seems pretty reasonable, I don’t know how much lower you can expect
Apradh
Stealth
8 months ago
I’ve hired folks just last year at a 2.5 yoe at 12.5 (they continue with work with us and are amazing)
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Is he laid off or working for 15L CTC. If it is the latter guess he has nothing to lose.
Apradh
Stealth
8 months ago
Its the latter. And true there’s nothing to lose. But posting on GV saying they ain’t getting calls, well. The reason is clear.
Well everybody wants free social media marketing. Good you dodged a bullet. I would never ever hire marketers for tech position. A simple introduce yourself question makes it all clear
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Just wanted to know what would you have offered to this fellow ?
If he is working at 15 LPA right now and assuming it’s all fixed , would you be okay with 20 as it would have been a 30% hike?
Speaking from the candidate’s prospective , may be he quoted higher because you guys are in stealth mode and things may or may not materialise ahead ?
Anyways, would be interesting to know your take on it as well
Apradh
Stealth
8 months ago
That’s a reasonable ask, yes. We’d atleast have thought of having a discussion around that. While its still on the higher side given the market does have a huge float of resumes, its atleast a starting point.
Btw their 15LPA is not all fixed either.
On the notion of things not materialising further, it’s a startup. They currently work for one and our guess is that they’d be aware of the risks. Not to draw a comparison but I’ve worked in startups for more than a decade now and always understood the risks associated with the option (to an extreme where I’ve taken 3 paycuts in my career, 2 of which worked out quite well).
Not preaching but somehow, after all these years, I’m finding such situations as taxing. I don’t fundamentally get the YOLO logic either, maybe an old bugger ranting. Anyways.
Interesting. The guy you interviewed seems to have tried his luck. As they say, there is no harm in asking and until you ask something , you won’t get it. Anyways, they might have their own reasons as well.
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Seems a bit steep but still a reasonable ask to me.
Assuming 15l current while sitting at home.
+5l if you have to relocate to Bangalore to account for increased expenditure.
+4-5 for job switch as my skills have improved from my last compensation change (assumption)
+3-5 lakh to account for risk for transitioning from a big brand(assumed stable job) to a startup in very early stages (risky job).
So totals out to 27-30l compensation.
Now you may or may not agree with the above but from an employee side, if someone currently works for a decent company at a decent comp then they probably will not settle for anything less than 25-30.
I would these these calculations work in boom times. Unless the candidate skillset is exceptional and hot, there will be a queue of resumes looking for work for his yoe and we just getting started in bear market.
DecentWord73
Stealth
8 months ago
There's always a queue
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Apradh
Stealth
8 months ago
Haven’t launched. Closing a round.
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Apradh
Stealth
8 months ago
Btw nothing against the candidate. I’m sure they are a nice person and might have just thought they could try their luck. Nothing wrong with it.
Just that in this market, it appeared astronomical as an expectation.
RealOldmonk
Stealth
8 months ago
Know couple of ppl earning astronomical salaries, laid off and hell bent on not taking a cut and looking around even after 6 months, I really wish good for them that they get hired at same salary, eg byju giving 60-90 base to 3-5 years experience. They might get into something without compromising, but as the market outlook is like, very few will be able to do that, rest the bubble is bursting slowly, if you are financially sound and can wait as long as you can do, rest face the reality and get something, a bird in hand is worth more than two in bushes
GlassSkin63
Stealth
8 months ago
2.5 years of experience implies passing out in 2021 which saw once in a life time sort of easy money fueled hiring surge. Such conditions aren't going to be repeated in the near future. Those who saw only 2021, 2022 and weren't affected by layoffs might not realize how much of an outlier those two years were. Similarly 2023 is an outlier in a negative way and hopefully won't be repeated. Currently seeing exceptionally good quality freshers looking for packages in range of 3-6 lpa which makes paying more than 20 lpa for 2 years exp difficult. Why get one 2 years exp dev when you can accommodate 4 hungry self starter type fresher devs. I'm happy to have bagged 2 such awesome devs for 10lpa total recently.
dfcknon
Stealth
8 months ago
You sound proud about underpaying awesome devs. Unfortunately for you if they're actually good they'll not be staying long under those conditions.
GlassSkin63
Stealth
8 months ago
The alternative would be for me to not being able to hire them (and them not being able to get their first jobs). My startup is totally bootstrapped and this is all i could offer.
MightyLazyGeekStar
Stealth
8 months ago
If the person is genuinely underpaid, high expectations are valid. A person will stick for long if there is trust established on both ends. Pay just helps one way.
Apradh
Stealth
8 months ago
They aren’t. Atleast in our opinion.
dfcknon
Stealth
8 months ago
Perspective. You have yours and they have theirs
Plenty of folks getting 26L fixed at 2.5 YOE, that seems to be common for SDE2 roles. Why do you care what his previous salary is? All that should matter is the value he's able to bring to you, and whether it's in your budget.
Apradh
Stealth
8 months ago
A honest question. Did you follow this theory when you got hired in your current company? Apologies if it comes across as rude. Genuinely curious if this can work out for most folks.
@Apradh Yes. I've also been interviewing for SDE-2 roles in the past month, and in my experience, 80% of companies I was applying to (usually Indian companies or startups) tried to ask for the current CTC to gauge how desperate the candidate is, and would not go beyond 30% hike. I usually did not pursue them. Remaining 20% (often bigger companies, barring a few startups) had a fixed band and would be willing to offer within the band even if current CTC is low. By sticking to my expectations, I eventually got an offer with a 65% hike (21L to 33L) at an MNC.
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Sapthinker
Stealth
8 months ago
To these inflated egos tech bros with inflated ctc expectations, the recessionary market is saying below
OblongFlood
Student
8 months ago
Would u be interested in hiring a fresher who is good at both frontend and ui/ux? I think I could add value to your venture.
OblongFlood
Student
8 months ago
Sure thing, mailing u🙏
hey @Apradh. are you hiring for remote roles? my 5 dms are over, can you share your email/telegram to chat?
Cafeinatedpragmatist
Stealth
8 months ago
Both of you are right/both of you are wrong.
There's no harm in having expectations but also no point in judging other people's expectations.
At the end of the day, either your expectations are validated or you are forced to reset expectations. Best to let time play this out.
Apradh
Stealth
8 months ago
That’s my realisation after most of the comments.
Dcube
Stealth
8 months ago
I like this balanced view.
Job market is literally flooded with resumes, reasonable hikes in this market would be around 20-50% I guess on fixed pay though it will depend upon the current pay as well. Try to focus more towards the job profile look for the role which offer exponential learning so that once the job market recovers you can reap the benefits. Focus on the mental health as well spend time with your family, always remember that your company will replace you the moment you leave.
As somebody hiring in this market (while expecting things will be sane), I completely relate with you.
There's a dearth of good candidates. People apply with free will, you speak with them and realize they weren't really looking for the job in the first place - and hence have asks way beyond what one can fathom.
Weird weird job market.
OblongFlood
Student
8 months ago
@AlphaGrindset do you have any frontend or ui/ux opportunities you could refer me to?
Nothing wrong with the candidate asking this CTC ! He has experience and stuff ! If it is a company making profits his CTC is acceptable and will be on a safer side ! For a early stage startups this could be a doubtful salary of course ! During I was on a interview panel, a guy with 0 experience asked us 45L as CTC ! I blame nibbas and nibbis for making people think that they can ask this much of amount in every company!
What was the fresher position for? Is it a R&D job which requires specialized IQ?
victusd
Stealth
8 months ago
Any place to reach out to you ?
HangryJay
Stealth
8 months ago
Damn that's an interesting name. Crime. Hey let me know if you're hiring for Data Analyst. (Shooting my shot)
anongod
Student
8 months ago
After you think its all good to name your company here, please comment here, I'm following and any open positions?
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