Software Engineers as seen by a Product Manager...

There has been a huge influx of posts dissing roles like Product, Marketing, HR etc. by Techies. Every other post, or comment is made by them undermining the value of other depts and these cuties think business runs just by their sub-par code. I understand that their delusion stems from the fact they get paid huge salaries by loss making companies. Which is bound to crash sooner or later. Rant over.

Question to all the software engineers. What are some traits of the best PMs you have worked with - could be a behavioural aspect / work ethic / knowledge of the domain etc.

If absolutely all software engineers obsess over business metrics rather than technology it would be net-net great outcome for the ecosystem as well for the individual economically, socially. I find it childish when a CTO/Architect/Principal engineer obsess over code & infra architecture, low level/high level design, scalability. Outcome: --- I want engineers at all seniority levels and all disciplines must only care about biz metrics. Product management should cease to exist. Everything tech will fall into place. If you were the product manager of the "bangalore", how would you approach this? One approach i thought - --- To get into Bangalore tech ecosystem you must need a certification from a institution (For ex: Tech School), absolutely mandatory from this school irrespective of your college background. This tech school will allow everyone to enter, online lectures, teach customer empathy, research, industry standard tech, product management, design. Aim is to set correct mindset for growth and first principle thinking. This will make college background irrelevant.

its advertised as minj CEO role but what is the reality?

1. You are building a software that otherwise could be built by a 12 year old kid, if given proper training. 2. You cannot code if I cut off google, stackoverflow & related websites. 3. You are just concerned about producing the output quickly because a. your work is time bound, b. you want to stand out from others. 4. You attend countless meetings that carry no value, thanks to Agile. 5. 10 people write code for the same software which otherwise could have been written by 1 person. 6. You write pages of documents just because you are expected to write for the team, compliance & stuff. 7. You don’t care about non-functional requirements as nobody asked for it. 8. You are spending hours together in coding a simple thing & you are branded a hard-worker. 9. Or you don’t spend much time in coding because you impress people with tech jargons that you learnt recently. You are branded a smart-worker. 10. The code you write will be completely rewritten in next 3-4 years just to catch up with the industry trends. 11. Your only goal is to earn loads of money which otherwise could not be earned in other engineering fields. That’s one of the reasons why you are on grapevine. Prove me wrong if you can, by commenting your opinion.

PM of 5 years. Same place the whole time. We have a new Engineering Manager. They started 2 months ago and at first they seemed like they were very happy to learn our process and products. Then they soon started to manipulate the Engineering team which was very cooperative earlier. It’s incredibly demotivating. We are a small startup, and the culture isn’t great but seriously no need to be so dismissive of other people’s efforts and feelings. They are just fucking rude. No other word for it really. The problem is that they do NOT get the product side of things so you can’t explain anything to them. They start to physically roll their eyes when you go anymore product than the word “PRD”. I have never had to deal with someone like this and it’s really stressing me out as they are involved in effectively every project I work on. Advice that isn’t “quit” will be appreciated. I should also clarify that when I say “product limitations” I really mean how much effort goes into getting things right, the delays are shearing the roadmap apart. why do Software Engineers act so rude? How to solve this in my team?

For me it is that sometimes I quote 2x the time it will take for me to code something because I want to test it better and ensure that I don't push code with bugs that affects prod deployment with downtime or unintended behaviour. I can do it faster but I know that PMs don't respect developer time and will ask me to build stuff because they want to get promoted for real.

Do you think pure product managers with no technical background add value to your company? Aren't experienced project managers with penchant for business more suitable for this role?